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No Prefix Why I'm irritated with submitting maps

Discussion in 'The Network' started by Mohawk2, Dec 1, 2018.

No Prefix - Why I'm irritated with submitting maps
  1. Mohawk2 Regular Member

    I mostly wrote this thread to blow off steam, but also to inform the staff at shotbow about why their map submitting process is annoying. If you don't care about my stories, just read the last paragraph. I think it has some important information that the staff needs to read.

    I've been making maps for servers for a while now. I think it's been about 2 years since I started making maps. I've made 6 maps during that time. I'm a good builder, yet, believe it or not, not a single map of mine has been accepted. You might be skeptical of that claim, but not a single map has been denied for gameplay or aesthetic reasons. There was nothing wrong with any of my maps. The fourth, fifth, and sixth are about shotbow. Here's what happened.

    My first and second ever map, minerifts:
    This was for a small server by the name of minerifts. This is where my second map also was, so I'm combining the two stories into one. I asked if they accepted maps, and they said yes. I finished a dropper map and a CTF map that took me some time. Then I asked them to add it. They said they'd get around to it but it would take a while. I waited 3 months, and I occasionally asked them and they always said they'd "get around to it". Then they added a map to CTF, but it wasn't my map. They were "too busy" to add my map but they apparently were fine with adding other maps. It wasn't because my map was bad because they even said it met the standards and they just hadn't added it yet. I waited another 3 months. They still hadn't added it but they got a new owner and he promised to do work on the server. I told him that about my map and he said he added it. A month later, my map STILL hadn't been added and they SHUT THE SERVER DOWN! Thanks, guys!

    My third map; mineplex:
    I started to make my third map before minerifts shut down. I didn't want a repeat of my first and second map so I made it on the second biggest, most mapmaker friendly server, mineplex. It was about 2 months after my second map. I decided to make it for a game called Castle Siege. This build stands to be my biggest ever build, even today, more than a year after making it. Castle Siege maps have to be very big and are VERY hard to make due to specific abilities of two vastly different teams, how big the map needs to be, and how not many elements can be copy/pasted. I worked on it for dozens of hours, and even once I got it finished they asked me to do large amounts of edits that took dozens more hours, even though they knew what was coming. Once I got it finished and submitted it for the final time with all the edits done. THEY REMOVED THE GAME CASTLE SIEGE. They didn't even bother giving more than a one day warning even though they knew it was coming for months. They told me, along with other mapmakers, to keep doing edits even though they knew our work was going to get wasted. This was the biggest outrage of any server I've ever made a map on, so I decided to NEVER work on a map for mineplex again, despite it still having the best map submission policies.
    My fourth map shotbow:
    Vowing never to make a map for mineplex again, I decided to make a map for another server that had games I really liked, shotbow. This is why I'm posting it on the shotbow forums. I made a map for ghostcraft even though it didn't have a developer. This is the map that didn't get added mostly because of my fault, I shouldn't have made the map for ghostcraft. I thought another dev or shotbow builder would step in and add it. The map was called haunted hillside. I waited a few months but to no avail. No staff member had even replied to my post, even though most of the commenters and people voting on polls liked it. I posted on the forums asking devs to please add the map, but after about 4 posts spanning about 3 weeks, one dev said that I should stop posting those because he'd seen multiple of them and he thought they were kind of spammy. I forgot what dev it was but I think that it is funny that he both didn't want to help and didn't reply to the first one he saw because he probably just didn't really care. This was nine months ago, still, no devs have even commented on it, much less added it.
    My fifth map, shotbow:
    Despite my ghostcraft map not being added, I decided to make a new map for slaughter. I saw Friendly123 adding maps to slaughter, so I thought it was my chance. I thought that it would surely get added because there was a person adding maps right then! I made a map called Amazon. I talked to Friendly123 in game and he said he was happy that I was making a map. I submitted it, messaged Friendly123, but he never responded to both the threads or the DM's. I just checked the staff list, and he's still a builder. I haven't played much slaughter so I don't know if he still plays shotbow, but I posted my map 8 months ago and still no response.
    Possibily my final map, shotbow:
    I haven't submitted this map yet, but it's a town for mineZ. I went against my better judgment and decided to build a map for shotbow again. Minez, right behind smash, is probably the second best at getting responses and adding maps to the world if they are good enough and fit in. If I don't get a response, this very well may be my final map...

    I really think things need to change in shotbow. I get that staff might not have time, but a reply is the least they can do. Staff might even need to go out of their way and put a map into a gamemode that they don't moderate but imagine all the people who are pouring their time and effort into these maps that the staff members don't care about. If they can't even do that, then say you're no longer accepting maps for some gamemodes. People need a warning and you can't just pretend you want maps for gamemodes that have no chance of getting added no matter how good they are. I'm so tired of spending hours on a map for staff to not even care enough to spend 5 minutes responding to the thread. If the map is bad, tell me it's bad. If you're too busy to add it, tell me you're to busy to add it!

  2. Tannatron Mini Builder

    If your irritated because your maps aren't getting added, then just stop submitting them, its that simple. Your not entitled to have your map added or have a staff respond to a build, just because you spent a lot of time or effort and think that its a great build. There are a lot of factors that determine if a build gets accepted or not. A small build that took 3 hours to build could be accepted over a large build that took months, simply because it fit what the buildteam was looking for. Whining on the forums will get you nowhere, a build being accepted is up to the staff and by complaining every week about it is doing the opposite of improving your chances of your builds being added. I believe that the staff do a good job of accepting quality builds, so maybe your builds aren't as good as you believe they are, but hey, that's just my opinion.
    Mistri, Tozzu and Meme_MC like this.
  3. ProjectMovieZ Regular Member

    He's not complaining about his maps getting added. Did you even read his thread? He complains that he gets no feedback from any staff although they are clearly accepting builds.
    _Swipe and GJrocks09 like this.
  4. Mistri Community Manager, PR Lead

    Hey there!

    For your Slaughter map, Amazon, I had liked your post when you released it, and Lomrun (the builder co-lead at the time) said he liked it but there was no developer to add it. So you definitely got feedback in that context.

    However, I do remember Friendly123 getting a developer to add some maps to Slaughter, so I'll bring it up internally. No promises, though!

    For your Ghostcraft map, there are no devs and no maps are being added, including other maps that have been submitted for review. Until there is a developer, this is unlikely to change.

    As for MineZ, I'm no builder but I know that only really good builds are selected by the build team, and only depending on if it fits with what they're working on. However, I do know that you'll get plenty of feedback if it's not up to par from our current builders once you post it :)

    Hope that clears things up!
    IvanDoomy, GJrocks09 and MTrout like this.
  5. Mohawk2 Regular Member

    I can't tell if you didn't read my thread or just didn't understand it. I said at the end that I was considering stopping making builds. The only reason I continued to make build submissions is because I want recognition for my builds. I don't want to have my builds sit in a world on singleplayer that nobody sees. I always thought that my next build submission would be the one that would be added (read the story, I give a reason why for each one) so I kept building. Also, if you think a map for slaughter takes 3 hours, you should try making one yourself. I believe that you think the map submission policy is better than it is. Some games don't have any devs or builders adding maps. Some games have builders or devs that don't add maps but don't say that. Some maps (like my own) go unnoticed for months or years. You could have the best map ever made but in the wrong circumstances, they would never be added. I hate how people, whenever people bring up a complaint people will always say it's "whining". Simply stating a complaint and providing a story isn't whining. I put a little bit of emotion into the story, that's true, but if I was just stating facts no one would read it. If you were talking about the messages I put about the ghostcraft map, I stopped doing those. Also, as ProjectMovieZ said, I never said the problem was my maps not getting added. I stated in the thread, word for word that "If my map is bad, tell me it's bad". The problem, in my opinion, is that staff never reject maps, they just let them sit. If they can't handle them, I really do think it is irresponsible keep giving people the idea that they have a chance to get added. My favorite part about the mineplex build submission system is that if your map isn't good enough, they reject it, they don't just ignore it forever.

    Ever worked really hard on a homework assignment, like staying up until far past midnight, only to find out the next day it wasn't for a grade? That's how it feels when you work really hard on a map only to never get a response, except that you spent even more hours of work into the map. I feel like most people don't understand how much it sucks to make a specific build for a specific gamemode just to have it ignored.
  6. GJrocks09 Builder

    Hey Mohawk, I completely understand how you feel.. It really sucks when you spend countless hours, days, weeks, or even months on a build that you feel so confident in that ends up just never getting any attention. Like Mistri said above, a lot of the stuff you've submitted has been for game modes that don't currently have any developer so there is sadly no way for your maps to be added to those modes quite yet. Remember though, everything is subject to change, also going to stress that my opinion does not matter in any way shape or form regarding builds being added. I think your builds are pretty good, you should keep building and improving just like I am doing right now. I'd personally love to see what else you might be able to pull off in the future, in my opinion any build submission nowadays is something positive as it shows that there are still active community members who would like to make their own content for their favorite modes. To wrap it up, please don't feel discouraged that your builds aren't added or don't receive enough attention. I guarantee you that if you just keep building, keep submitting, sooner or later you will create something that gets loads of attention. Best of luck.
    Mistri, MTrout and Mohawk2 like this.
  7. Murgatron Network Lead

    Just wanted to add sometimes submissions can be considered much later on! :)
    Mistri and MTrout like this.
  8. ACringyWeeb Platinum

    yo just want to say i really love your builds. But adding onto the thing with friendly, he's probably really busy. This is my opinion on building maps: sometimes you have to accept the fact that some builds won't be added. Also, you will have to be patient. Before, when I had my shotbow juices I really loved making slaughter maps. It was just so fun to think of ideas and places you can make for a gamemode you really love. Like aztecs, oasis, haunted castle, floating islands, etc. None of them got added. But what delighted me was how much fun it was to make these maps and all the great comments I got from the threads. And then later I collabed with friendly (kind of ironic atm lol) and made a map called Apocalypse and it got in. I get that this is not your point, just wanted to release my thoughts out there. I do agree we need more "staff activity" on the build submission forums though. Just like I said above, it makes my day when I see people taking their time to view my work.
    Last note, i'd suggest getting more developers who are interested in being one, (I know a few) and get these damn good maps into the game. That's usually the problem with maps though.
  9. greenboy3000 Regular Member

    Building for a server is your choice, as I am a builder too, I can understand your dissapointment. You have to keep in mind that your are not the only one submitting maps, there are ALOT of submissions and it would take hours to answer every single one.

    My idea is that they put every map they find good in a queue/list, this list will be avaliable for every developer of every game. If they need a new map for that game, they will just check these.

    Short: Replying takes too much time and it may cause further questions which take even longer to satisfy.
    Don't think they ignore your efforts, they really love their community and try to make everyone happy, but not in a personal way, more likely as a whole.
    And thats exactly what a proper administration should be doing.
  10. Smartz_ Platinum

    Have you really trusted the administration on this server?
    Hingey and I_Dont_Play_This like this.
  11. IvanDoomy Mini Builder

    Well it seems people have already cleared up some of the topics you presented so I'll just give you some advice if you want to make a build sub for SMASH or MineZ: Get involved with the community, if you haven't already. Ask around, what would players want to see, what would the staff team like from a build sub and try to find a middle ground, if you can. That way you know exactly what to build and what can have the best chance to get added. The best way to get involved is either through the Shotbow TS or Discord server and finding people there. I think MineZ also has a couple of discord servers of their own made by the community so lurk around those too.
    For the most part, both SMASH and MineZ have a relatively active staff and playerbase, unlike GhostCraft and Slaughter. From what I see SMASH gets a lot of maps added so there's that. For MineZ, with the PTR release, a lot of rebuilds of old locations are getting added. I'd recommend you focus on making a minor location (small project, has a very small chance to get added), a rebuild of a location people want rebuilt or simply a facelift of an old one that needs some love.
    One last piece of advice for future builds: Try to build something you're happy with and you want to build out of personal desire. Don't feel obligated to make builds or don't focus too much on the thought that they'll be added 100%. If you focus too much on the latter, the only person that's gonna come out losing is you, so try to avoid that and keep a positive mindset. Even if it doesn't get added, you at least had fun making it right?
    However, I agree more staff members should look into and reply to build subs. It really goes a long way when a staff member comments something positive on your thread.
    ACringyWeeb and Mistri like this.
  12. Kingey SMASH Lead

    I personally try to be as responsive as possible when it comes to people trying to contribute to a game I oversee. Do understand though, that when it comes to adding maps, and managing a gamemode at that, the Annihilation team for instance has a lot more work on their plate than I do. Simply because SMASH is smaller and requires less work to implement new builds or changes. Whilst I agree any form of feedback is desirable, sometimes there just isn't time to respond. As Murgatron already mentioned, not getting a reply does not mean that your build will never be added or has not been noticed. It's just possible that it will take some more time before you get a response from staff of the corresponding gamemode you created your submission for.

    Heck I added maps that were submitted years ago some time back =P
    _Swipe and Mistri like this.
  13. Mohawk2 Regular Member

    As I mentioned at the end of the thread, SMASH is probably the best game of all with the map submission system. I respect that you make sure that no smash map waits for too long without a reply. I also liked how you even made a competition with map submissions. If I ever make another map for shotbow, it will probably be for smash, but I don't know how likely that is considering that I'm making my own games now.
    Veghetto and Hingey like this.
  14. XDGrangerDX Gold

    Meanwhile i got the least liked map added to shotbow ever added: Kernel for Lightbikes.

    ... I had gravely underestimated how large maps need to be for satisfying lightbikes matches but im fairly certain my map made it in mainly because of the way i used snow layers to make ways up and down (which wasnt possible with full blocks if i recall).

    Kind of makes me wonder if what you need to focus on to get a map added, is a quirk that lets the game be played in a way different than used to, even if it only means introducing previously unexplored strategic points.
    _Swipe likes this.
  15. _Swipe Platinum


    also it's important to note that at the time you submitted that map for lightbikes the server was in a much different state than today

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