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Discussion What's a Player?

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by Bergmanman, Apr 5, 2018.

Discussion - What's a Player? | Page 2

Do you believe the Shotbow staff team are doing a good job?

Yes. 22 vote(s) 24.2%
No. 40 vote(s) 44.0%
Kind of. 29 vote(s) 31.9%
  1. Bergmanman Platinum

    The point of this post was to inform and to gather. I am successfully gathering information about other's views which was my main goal. My secondary goal was to inform both the staff and the players of the situation at hand and why it needs to be dealt with. If you see it as hate filled, then that is only because I am bringing up their weaknesses, as is the point. I'm not sure how you view this discussion as belligerent, but it seems you are exaggerating a good bit.
    Now if you're done trying to take my post down, please leave helpful feedback or none at all.
    Mysterious_Seven likes this.

  2. Capt Platinum

    When you ask for shit for 5 years nicely and they just ignore you and do whatever
    WWII, LegendaryDucc and Hingey like this.
  3. Hingey Platinum

    Well Snurkle strikes again. Idk maybe there are better ways to show we are unhappy with the current state of things?
  4. DutchSurvivor Obsidian

    Please note, that the following is been said with full respect towards those whom responded and the staff team in which I've faith.

    So, the issue Bergmanman is trying to address; is something which has been going on for years. Something which won't be solved with a single post, nor an quick chat with staff. Something which is going to take time of both sides, where the staffers can't go without the community and vice versa.

    However, I do think that, telling the community they can leave if they don't like something should never ever be an option. Since we do need our community here, on Shotbow! Regarding the cheaters, this is something which we will always have to deal with. Something Shotbow should try to keep countering with more mini-admins and an constantly improved anti-cheat, something in which I've faith that they're working on that! Before I continue I would like to state the following:

    Please keep in mind that, Shotbow in its entirety is being run by volunteers, people whom won't be paid for what they do. Nor for what they present you, at the end of the day (you as being a player aka the client/consumer).

    However, back in the glory days of Shotbow, particular high-end people did get payed for what they did. In my opinion that doesn't necessarily goes paired with what's been done 'at the end of the day'. But it does effect the energy someone wants to put into something. This energy is also affected by how we, as a community, respond towards changes, updates etc... Meaning, we in-directly affect our own game-play... With that said, I'm not trying to get us a full-time developer, instead I'm trying to give the community some background info of how it all works...

    For those whom have noticed it yet, Shotbow is partnering/partnered with another network. This network is called DDG, a network created by Dutch people which has mini-games like we do. If all goes according to plan, we could have EU back soon :wink:. As far as I know, they're currently working on changing the staff teams. Especially DDG's, to create more unity. DDG however, is more transparent then Shotbow: something which DDG aims for!

    So, all in all, I think that:

    Shotbow should be more open about what is being worked on/created and what not. Being honest towards its community instead of keeping us in the dark. Shotbow has recently been undergoing some changes, as you might've noticed, Murg and Navarr network leads etc. This process also takes time for them to get used to, and has led to some new things already. One publicly known as the Annihilation tourney!

    Like Navarr says, don't quote me on this :heart:, it is hard for us to tell the community when a new update gets released. Or when a new game-mode comes out. Because this could cause more trouble than it should. For that reason, they tease us for instance with images of what is coming (see Annihilation update).

    I don't have the answers either, I don't think anyone has them. But I do think we should work together. For instance we could create weekly events where we talk about certain issues on the Network. Where we could create a message and send it to the staff team, to see if this is helpful for them! But not force them to do something, they shouldn't expect that from us. Nor should we expect it from them!

    To get Shotbow back to the top, we need to work together. We as a community and the community with the staff team!

    Like I stated above, I am not trying to provoke anything, nor trying to take someone down. Just solely trying to help out, and share my opinion and knowledge.

    If you have any comments or suggestions, please do make them or send them to me via a PM.

    Much luv,

    ~ Dutch

  5. SpaceWarp Emerald

    My one question is with the partnership, what has it brought to shotbow?
  6. ment0l66 Emerald


    Something about sharing code (I think Navarr talked about this in a AMA he did a while back in discord, not sure though)
  7. DutchSurvivor Obsidian

    For this I should refer you to the OP: https://shotbow.net/forum/threads/announcing-our-new-partnership.378139/

    Basically they are trying to work together by using each-others resources and knowledge, with that also using each others game-modes etc - please do correct me if mistaken.

    If you have any further questions, please let me know!
  8. Hingey Platinum

    Just another empty gesture made by shotbow. I dont understand why shotbow does the things they do sometimes, you are trying to improve the server not ruin it right? The partnership was released a little under a year ago since then not much has been publicly done and to be honest it sounds like the players from shotbow are not huge fans of DDG and his server. I mean why go through all of the work of setting up a partnership if it is never going to go through. Shotbow tries to keep us happy with these new gamemodes or bringing old ones but where is Civ-war and Wasted? Even Ghost-craft and slaughter will be going soon maybe even Smash if Kingey decides he doesn't want to be apart of the staff team. Even then everyone knows Anni is the only thing this server cares about. Exactly why Murg took over, Anni is basically shotbow. Not saying I dont support other gamemodes though. I really dont know where im going with posting this but hopefully you see where im coming from.
  9. Smartzz Emerald

    From what I've seen, shotbow did this to itself. For example, I've seen people that worked together, a positive community, and it actually saddens me to see this hate filled thread. No one can agree anymore. The staff from what I've seen have OBVIOUSLY treated the players like trash sometimes, however they have done some things well. I think the way shotbow handles their community could be the first step in the right direction. It's gotten to the point where when shotbow pulls up minor bug fixes the community Oohs and Ahhs about the fact that the devs did something like that. Honestly at this point I don't think there is much Shotbow can do until they pull their heads out their asses.
  10. ___Mika Guest

    Question do you know how Admins/Staff do their work?You do't know if they're doing well or bad.I know you're disappointed because the hackers.With this post you won't do a change because nothing is convincing.
  11. jinl3e Platinum

    Do you know if they are doing good? Anyone remember Kounterattack? or jesse? Oh wait meme to the past.
    Can already tell this post will be deleted lol

    EDIT: But seriously. The events above happened the wrong way and no staff ever talk about it and why the fuck it happened.
    Mysterious_Seven, Hingey and WWII like this.
  12. Bergmanman Platinum

    I don't need to know HOW they work to know that they don't work well. Just today I played a game, a hacker nuked a nexus early on then completely filled chat with spam till phase 4. An admin only finally came after a teammate of mine PM'd one.

    The report system doesn't work quickly at all, admins rarely if at all patrol servers, and hackers don't face any real punishment so more and more games are becoming like this.
    Smartz_ likes this.
  13. Litnetti Emerald

    shoutout to our japanese players for keeping this network alive
    gaelic, H2i_, _Swipe and 4 others like this.
  14. Hingey Platinum

    They are definitely around however they often need convincing evidence that can past thier GO to ban someone. From what I hear it is too strick even when there is a completely obvious hacker. Hey but at least there are less false bans. They need to change the rules so admins can play in the games they are in it would give some incentive. Also the report system should be reworked to track overall reports of each player and have reports sent to an on duty staff that may not be in that exact game.
  15. Jeroenhero Retired Developer

    Community feedback has always been important when looking into new features and updates, however this might be different per developer / gamemode. Let's take Anni as an example, we have had quite some changes which were implemented due to community feedback. A couple examples are:
    - Votes for new maps added to the game / removed.
    - Scout got nerfed as requested by the majority of the community.
    - We re-added the golem as also suggested on the forums.
    - A big patch to the Nexus update, applying changes suggested / reported by the community: https://shotbow.net/forum/threads/nexus-update-patch.380350/

    When the classes update was almost completed, (May 2017), we created multiple closed and open beta's allowing players to give feedback on all changes which resulted into several patches being applied before launching this update.

    All decisions made on new features and changes are not just made by the developers, for Annihilation the update team exists out of 22 staff members. Most of those staff members often play Annihilation, go through the forums and are active on Discord. We see a lot of complaints and suggestions by community members and those usually end up being shared in our Slack channel and discussed about. If we conclude that a change is required, we will do so. However this might not always be directly communicated to the person suggesting it, but rather in a general thread containing all changes.

    You might not always see staff around you, responding to threads or discussions but we definitely do see it and take this with us when making decisions.

    We appreciate and listen to all suggestions created by all players, staff members and former staff members.

    You just also correctly pointed out one of the reasons why we prefer not to share new updates too early, we have several competitors around which are extremely happy to steal our unreleased ideas like they did previously.

    I agree that we could often be more transparent about what's going on. I usually like to give a lot of updates regarding projects I'm working on and gather a lot of feedback pre-releasing, however others might not.
    There are situations where transparency can be applied, but this is not always the case. We have to be extremely careful when announcing work is being done on new gamemodes / garaged gamemodes because people will instantly become hyped which can lead to false expectations, as well as people getting angry / dissapointed when a project is cancelled or takes more time than expected.
    Transparency is also dangerous when working on new features because this might allow competitors to clone it before we do.

    I have a couple examples of things which are going good in terms of transparency right now (Short term):
    - Feedback on bug reports / bug's fixed. Last week I responded to around 70 bug reports and messaged (and rewarded) users who reported bugs. We also posted a list of issues fixed both in Discord and on the forums.
    - There are probably going to come some new development streams soon.

    Hackers have been an ongoing problem for a while, but we do actively patrol, monitor reports and ban people. We handled around 2700 reports last week resulting in a lot of bans. We are there in games and we ban a lot of hackers but it's a continuous fight which doesn't end. As soon as we ban a guy, 2 minutes later this guy is back on another server, using another IP and name where it will likely take 5-15 minutes before this user is reported again. Only thing I can ask you, and you have probably heard it a million times before: Please use /report so we can take care of the hackers.
    Regarding your screenshot of the 1.9 opinions, other staff have responded to that on the corresponding thread.

    Well said, I agree with almost everything in your post.

    Going to enjoy the weather now. I will attempt to respond to more posts later on.
    TheFlame_YT, Mistri, Hingey and 6 others like this.
  16. Bergmanman Platinum

    Thank you for responding, I appreciate it greatly.

    I finished typing up a very detailed response a few minutes ago and when I tried to post it, it sent me to a cloudflare site saying Shotbow was down so I lost my response. But I'll try to tl;dr it.

    You have been one of the most transparent admins in my eyes and I am very grateful. Staff might read every post and comment that goes through the forums, but it's rare to see a response from one, which makes the players feel like they aren't being heard.

    As for hackers, I'm sure its a relentless fight against their ever evolving methods. But excuses don't get results. If there aren't enough staff members to patrol, look into grabbing some more. If it takes too long to train/trust one, ease the restrictions a bit. I believe you can increase the efficiency of hacker tracking as well.
    For example, have all Anni admins connected to a system that pings them when a new game starts or when it reaches phase 2. With a simple click one or more staff can respond to the ping and be teleported to the server silently. Since a large majority of hackers reveal themselves within the first phase or 2, staff can already be there ready to catch them. And then instead of sticking around the whole game, can leave after 10 or 15 minutes. This would cut down the number of /reports greatly, increase the presence of staff in players' view, and remove a lot of frustration from everyone.

    Once again, thank you for responding and I wish I could've posted with more info but didn't feel like typing it all twice.
    Hingey, DutchSurvivor and Jeroenhero like this.
  17. SpaceWarp Emerald

    I'm asking because I have not sent anything come out of it.
  18. Jeroenhero Retired Developer

    Nothing public yet, but work is being done behind the scenes. We're having a meeting in 2.5 hours
    Hingey and Horst_Frank like this.
  19. SpaceWarp Emerald

    Why hasn't anything happened yet? The network seems to have great games but the language is a real barrier for me and I'm sure others have the same issue, I can't even read the basic directions for the minigames.
    Hingey likes this.
  20. TheAlmightyVance Regular Member

    Removed by Jeroenhero

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