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Discussion Wasted in the Coming Year

Discussion in 'Wasted' started by Robertthegoat, Apr 19, 2016.

Discussion - Wasted in the Coming Year
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  1. Robertthegoat Developer

    Howdy folks!

    Chances are, if you're viewing this forum, you've been around Shotbow a while, and remember Wasted in the old days. I'm sure everyone can relate to the fast-paced competitive nature of the beloved gamemode. Speaking on behalf of the Wasted team and Shotbow as a whole, it is our wholehearted intention and ultimate goal to reconnect coming revamp of Wasted to that same experience. We're planning, in this overhaul, to realign gameplay with the elements that made Wasted so special and gave it its unique identity. And even if the resulting gamemode exhibits dramatic changes, those elements will still be preserved. As a community member, consider this a golden opportunity.

    Ok, sure. But how long is this all going to take?

    The question I'm sure everyone wants to ask: time-frame. Blunt honesty, there isn't one, yet. Lets consider first what this update is going entail...
    First off, as you may or may not know, Wasted is being assessed from the ground up. That is, nothing is set in stone, and lots could change. Mechanics, physics, guns and gun behavior, machinery, shops, builds and buildings... everything is fair game. Planning is going to take some time, but that leaves the community plenty of time to hash out expectations; expectations that will be factored into the final product.

    So, the new Wasted is going to be completely different from the original gamemode?

    No. In short, there will still be key gameplay elements preserved into the new gamemode. To what degree old features are maintained is a major topic for debate, one that is freely open to the community; we encourage discussion. That said, there is real potential the structure of the game could change, dramatically. It depends a lot on the style of competitive gun-slinging action people want: fast-paced, short round team matches like Control... persistent objective-based death-matches like old Wasted... something completely different? There's a lot of potential to go in any number of directions.

    I've been asked several times before, by concerned members of the community, where my visions for the game lie. I've created this thread, in part, to open questions from the community about our plans, and to share what information I can to provide insight, the goal of which to inspire future discussions. In short, I feel passionately about the classic elements of Wasted, but I also recognize with that some of the concerns of the community that revolved around the lack of a real overall objective in the game. Certainly areas of the game needed further development, and development will be received, but to broaden my perspective, I ultimately wish to share a vision with the community in full. That is, as your representative on Shotbow, I don't hold my personal views any higher than those of each and every member who wishes to participate in the discussions; everyone will have a chance to contribute if they desire.

    To help kick-start the discussions here, I would ask that each initial post by contributing community members bring up a few points about Wasted that, in your mind, make it special and unique. Maybe something that you feel passionately about, or something you wish to see changed from the old gamemode. But with that said, lets also open up some to some broader discussions about gameplay flow and mechanics - as I said, everything is fair game. The goal here is to get some ideas flowing, and discuss the pros, cons, and practicality of implementation; nothing too specific yet. My hope is, by getting these discussions going every so often, I can, on my part, address concerns raised by the community, and on your side, present ideas and concerns in a way which promotes feedback and in-depth discussion.

    Thank you all for reading, and I hope to hear your thoughts about Wasted's future!

    You guys rock!

  2. kyogyu Regular Member

    holy shit this is happening finally man ive been waiting for like 2 years now
  3. _Swipe Platinum

    Here are my quick thoughts...

    1. I expect the rereleased Wasted to be funner and harder as you progress, not easier (because then that's no fun, huahua!). I want to feel very proud and accomplished after becoming fully geared, because it was a hard challenge that few others ever reach. Yet, I also want other activities to do besides mowing down the lesser-geared players after that point.

    2. I expect the rereleased Wasted to have cooperation and organization as a key to the success of your team, without which it is extremely hard to gear up and defeat others. People could actually benefit from coordinating attacks on certain areas, and the whole team must have a goal. Sure, capturing an objective is great, but I believe something even more specific like having your team fight for control of towns throughout the map, slowly progressing towards the enemy team's main base of operations (which, after captured, gives a hefty reward) would be very enjoyable. Wasted's players need an overarching purpose and objective, and with that opens doors for players to step up and be leaders.

    3. I expect the rereleased Wasted to have variety and uniqueness, in maps, in clans, and in classes. A weekly map rotation would give players a different battleground to fight on and get used to, rather than the same map over and over again for months. Cosmetic Customization options could be a great XP sink, and fun as players pay for trails, kill/death sounds and effects, and clothing. Finally, classes with cool, and fun abilities that stand out from each other would be awesome.

    These are my expectations, and I believe that if these were met in the New Wasted I would be one happy person! :lmao: Thanks for reading.

    tl;dr I want Wasted to be fun, challenging, and unique, with coordination and teamwork a necessity.
  4. Axyy Obsidian

  5. Cahillguy Regular Member

    Personally, I still stand by my viewpoint that Wasted is overhauled so that people fight over objectives (e.g. towns/cities) in teams, instead of wandering around aimlessly as Independents. Of course, we can keep the gun mechanics; we can keep the mechs and jetpacks; however, they should be tools to lead a team to victory, instead of killfarming. (You can still do that of course, except this time, to contribute to your team!) As Guard1an said:

    I absolutely agree with you, Guard1an. Once again, I'd like to point people to ColonolKAITO's Overhaul Suggestion thread in which we cover our ideas for Wasted 2.0. Warning: has many walls of text. The TL;DR of it is basically what Guard1an said above; our overhaul is built on "cooperation and organization as a key to the success of your team", with the "overarching purpose and objective" being to conquer the map for your team. For those who want to killfarm/shine out, there will actually be more opportunities to do so, since you'll be glorified by your team should you perform well for them!
    BrassBuilder likes this.
  6. Thomas_Dorland Obsidian

    Robert, I would've hugged you if you weren't a sheep.

    I can't believe wasted is coming back
  7. VerizonMobile Regular Member

    I am back to see what comes of an attempted revival, though most of the other old players have quit Wasted, and left forever. I still have some hope left of wasted being revived. I have my thoughts, and I may as well share some of them.

    Opinion on this guy's post
    Point 1: I agree with this point, it should be challenging as you get more into the game, not easier.
    Point 2: I sort of agree with this point, however some people are antisocial, disliked, friendless, or do not work well with a team. There should at least be some way to play without a team.
    Point 3: New maps, classes, and adding clans are all very good ideas. Clans and new classes are a fairly easy implement, but multiple maps is a very difficult idea. I think that honestly the most that could be done with maps is that a new one could be made, but multiple maps is difficult and would delay the release too far- maybe they could release new maps into a cycle every few months. As for cosmetic options, I think these are just not the kind of thing that they should waste time on. If people really care about this, I would say very last priority, the kind of thing that should be done between large updates and when there are no known bugs.

    warning textwall incoming

    How Wasted should feel
    I have some very good memories of Wasted in the old days, mid days, and the broken as shit days. Wasted always persisted to be a fun gamemode. But what should really be changed, is fixing the bugs and adding some new content. The general feel should be the same. We should still be able to feel the same feeling of excitement when you shoot down your first jetpacker with a Mosin, the feeling of power when you are decked out in gear or in a Mech, the friends you make on Wasted, some of which I still know and talk to sometimes, and just the fun and feeling of the game. Me, and a lot of the other old players, would not want the feeling to change. It should feel like the old Wasted, not be some shell of how it used to feel.

    Moments of Wasted
    A lot of old players and some pre-garage players have moments of wasted that are amazing, fun, funny, weird, and more. Some of mine are when:
    I had about 10 fully geared jetpackers with me at a dropzone and I accidentally threw a singularity and we all died and our stuff got destroyed
    Me and some other people were attacking city 17 where all the nightmares kept on spawning over and over, until we eventually wiped them out
    Pre fix, some of the races to the Eton and Pfitz jetpacks
    Destroying cocky jetpackers that think I cant kill them just because I am on the ground
    A guy got out of his mech to eat some bread, and I stole the mech and blew him up
    Assaulting 2 hackers in the center building at city 17
    On a good day with a load of players on, gathering up jetpackers in a group and rocketing everyone indirectly, then some guy got all our gear and went offline
    Following nofall jetpackers who were ass at the game and killing them

    Wasted was a great gamemode, and I have probably played a shameful amount of it. I want it to be revived and the bugs to be fixed mainly, new content would be less important.


    New weapons

    More movable structures

    More objectives

    The gear you have in your inventory changes your experience- see another section below

    More npcs than just the shopkeeper


    Inventory gear

    So you may have seen where I told you to look at another section below for one of them. In this section I will elaborate on that.

    Your class is decided with 2 factors.

    That is a spreadsheet of my proposed system of classes and effects. You can see things like air is generally less slow, anything to do with tank or heavy has to be slow, someone holding a light weapon or pistol will be faster.

    What the classes (not the same thing as the current classes, though those will still exist) do, are make different types of play more effective, viable, or doable.

    How they are decided

    Armored Ground is Legs/Boots of armor. Armored Air is also legs/boots of armor. Air is using a jetpack with 1 or 0 pieces of armor, while ground is no jetpack and 1/0 pieces of armor. Explosive is using any explosive primary and no secondary, a secondary that does not count toward classes, or an explosive primary, heavy is using any heavy primary and no secondary, a secondary that does not count toward classes, or a heavy secondary. Sniper is using any sniper primary and no secondary, a secondary that does not count toward classes, or a sniper secondary. Gunslinger is using any pistol primary and no secondary, a secondary that does not count toward classes, or a pistol secondary. Tank is using any heavy or tank primary and no secondary, a secondary that does not count toward classes, or a tank/heavy secondary - and using any piece of Tank Armor. Pyro is using any pyro weapon.

    How weapons are defined

    Flamer mechanics: Flamer does not work unless you have flamer tank as secondary. If you do, then you can use flamer fuel, a new ammo item, for 1 ammo for 3 projectiles

    If there is anything that I suggested that you have questions on or is unanswered or unstated, just ask.

    That took a while to write, so please don't just ignore it.
    Regular armor- iron armor.
    Tank armor- diamond armor.
    Zayuh and Guard1an like this.
  8. VerizonMobile Regular Member

    And the absolute best thing that could be done would be to PROMOTE WASTED ACROSS SHOTBOW. This was the main reason why Wasted died. It needs to be streamed, kept alive, advertised in chat messages across the network, etc.
  9. ColonolKAITO Obsidian

    Glad to see a progress report on this.

    That being said, I hope that it's successful and that everything turns out alright.
  10. Heimdall_Bifrost Regular Member

    I remember, way back when on a different account, I played a lot of wasted. One of the things I look back on with fondness was placing those prefabs together to make a big ol' fort and fighting in it. That adapting landscape made the game special in retrospect. Being able to fight in ten different areas on ten different days, all in the exactly same place on the map, was special. Jetpack AA-12 combos, maybe a little less so (unless you were the person with the jetpack and AA-12).

    Also, it'd be nice to see players being rendered from a LONG way away. That's one of the biggest let downs for me in Mine Theft Auto.
  11. Jore_ Silver

    Please, Please PLEASE add mid-air shooting for guns that take skill to use.
    Honestly, you can't use a Mosin Nagant and a Jetpack together unless you survived 'Nam.
    I used to love the thrill of flying over some noobs and trying to get a sick fly-by headshot.
    Now I have to sit myself on a building and fire 5 or 6 times because they DON'T STAND STILL.

    By 'Guns that take skill to use' I don't mean a PKP.
    (I'm looking at you, old Jore.)
    ranger958, Zayuh and Hydralax like this.
  12. Robertthegoat Developer

    I can confirm for certain that if any guns are allowed to be fired mid-air again, the M79 will be included, and there will be severe if not an outright block on shooting LMGs. I can site a number of proposed solutions here, but that will come to vote eventually anyways.

    Nothing like blowing yourself up mid-air to remind yourself jet packing is still dangerous.
    _Dark_Messiah_ likes this.
  13. NotDiezel Regular Member

    That document is private.
  14. Eggo Platinum

    You guys really need to give benefits to both ground and aerial combat. The way that this was done before isn't really optimal. You could limit speed/acceleration/implement a charging time before it can takeoff (these would prevent instantly fleeing in combat). Limited fuel quantities could also be implemented, forcing jetpack users to use fuel more carefully and visit fueling areas. Jetpacks could also make more noise, as cars do, so that they aren't such silent killers (like the deadly prius).

    There could also be a new level of heavier kevlar that could not be worn with a jetpack, or people could just be all out prevented from flying with kevlar.

    Another big issue, in my opinion, is the bullet flight curve. Bullets used to fly exactly (almost) where the bullet sprite/egg was actually flying. Then they were updated to remove/reduce bullet drop, but the bullet sprite/eggs still curved down. This makes aiming intuitively difficult, as it is hard to judge where the bullet is actually going. You should either find a way to make the bullet sprite/egg fly straight with the path of the actual bullet, or you should set the bullet drop to actually follow the bullet sprite/egg.

    There should probably also be more incentive to visit the less popular places on the map (everything except the cities). Maybe rare vehicles/"antique" guns (like the mosin?) could spawn sometimes in these towns.

    As for balancing, I'd suggest weakening the raw damage of rocket launchers (or increasing the price of rocket launcher ammo), as well as actually making scopes more usefull than optifine (increased accuracy?).

    There should probably be more control on dropzones to prevent farming/camping. A no fly zone has already been suggested for that.

    Other than that, maybe more placeable buildings could be created with air defense in mind.

    I hope that this actually works out.
    TreyTehRedstoner likes this.
  15. VerizonMobile Regular Member

    Sry for being retarded I unprivated them
  16. Robertthegoat Developer

    In relation to what was stated above, I would like to make one comment pertaining to the appearance of bullets. There is an actual Minecraft specific quirk I am well aware of from my own experiences in which projectiles exceeding a certain velocity will visually begin to stray from their actual flight path. Now, I cannot say for certain that this is at play here, as I do not have access to those exact numbers, but it is something to be mindful of as a very real potential limitation. Wasted bullets are flying faster than any normal Minecraft projectile I can think of. Correcting drop means increasing velocity, which in turn can bring the projectile under the influence of this effect - there is nothing we can do to remedy this. I would like to test this idea in the future, but for now that's just something to keep in mind.
  17. Eggo Platinum

    I'm not talking about the straying to the sides of the bullet sprites as much as the fact that the acutal bullets have no drop, but the eggs do. Why not just reimplement bullet drop? It really doesn't curve down much and puts a little more calculation into making shots, instead of just pointing and shooting. This will especially help new players, who become confused when the bullet isn't going where it is shown to be going.
  18. NotDiezel Regular Member

    The old bullet drop was a lot of fun.
    TehFrozenWizard likes this.
  19. Robertthegoat Developer

    That is something we can certainly consider then.
    NotDiezel likes this.
  20. Broooce Regular Member

    To be honest, I don't think much needs to be done to Wasted in terms of, it was really good back when it was released. Perhaps just add everything back again BUT add new features which are being discussed here such as only SOME weaponry can be fired mid air, that should clear issues up with everyone who thought Rocket Launching and using the PKP mid air was far too overpowered, which I do agree with.

    In addition to this, make Wasted fresh. Add new maps and different things to encourage people to come on and play, make it fun and not just a giant grind for the best kill streaks.

    I'll suggest stuff later in the week.
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