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Discussion The Great Immobilizer Debate: Why it Needs Nerfed

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by Superbob1000, Sep 28, 2020.

Discussion - The Great Immobilizer Debate: Why it Needs Nerfed
  1. SpookyBob1000 Retired Staff

    XP:
    144,502xp
    I have taken a long break from Anni, and have only come back recently. I was disappointed to see that Immobilizer still exists in more or less the exact same way: horribly unbalanced and unfair. Here I will go over the counterpoints people have for Immo being nerfed and debunking them. I'll also provide suggestions as to how to fix the class and still make it a reasonably good class to use with a friend and even solo.

    Counter-arguments:
    1#: Anni is a team game. Don't play alone if you don't want to be stopped by 2 or more players.

    Anni is a team game. And team games require that sometimes, a player does something alone. You cannot always drag a buddy to be in the gold mine with you. Sometimes, you have to mine alone, for example There shouldn't be an automatic kill button that someone can press if they have a buddy with them. And honestly, many people play this game solo. Anni is a team game at heart, but that should not be an excuse for an overpowered class. It just seems like lazy reasoning for someone who does not want the class to be changed. It's virtually saying, "it's fine because you don't play the game the way I think you should. If you just played how I did, you wouldn't run into this problem." I find that reasoning to be lacking of any real compelling case.

    #2: It is one of the only ways to properly defend from Invis rushing and Strength rushing

    This is a fair point in some ways. It is a very effective way. However, mercenary already does this same thing. A mercenary will catch just as many people as an immobilizer will. The difference is the defender now has to react quickly and well. With Immobilizer, one can take several moments to start to defend. This has big consequences as people can hold the right click button while they read or do homework. When they hear the crunch sound of Immo being activated, they can take up to several seconds to focus on what's going on. At least with Mercenary, the defender has to be somewhat attentive to the game. With Immo, no focus or skill is needed in this scenario. Also swapper traps and scorpio voiding are both good ways to catch OP solo rushers. They aren't 100% effective, but that's the point. No effortless tactic should be 100% effective against a rusher. Swapper traps are still very good. They just aren't perfect. But the rusher will not be perfect either.

    #3: It's been nerfed already. The time used to be significantly longer.

    This is completely irrelevant as it does not matter whether it has been nerfed or not. That's not my argument. My argument is that it is OP now. Past nerfs have no application to my opinion.

    #4: It takes a lot of time to sit at the nexus and right click the whole game to defend. It does not happen that often, and the player deserves to stop the rusher if they've been sitting at the Nexus for that long.

    As to the first point here, it does happen that often. In the past two months I've played again, I've seen it in every single game that's gone into Phase 4, and most teams use the tactic in each game as well. It's not rare to see it used as early as Phase 2 either. Immobilizer is widely used in the Nexus in this way; it is not a rare occurrence.
    Secondly, they don't deserve anything for right clicking and presumably watching a TV show or doing homework. I've done it before, and it takes no effort. I get XP from my teammates hitting enemy teams, and I get to help out passively while I do whatever I was going to do anyway. No effort. No skill. Therefore, there should be no massive pay-off for it.



    Possible Reworks
    [These are just suggestions and have not heavily been thought through. That's why I'm posting them here]

    #1
    Instead of completely immobilize the player, blind them, give them weakness, and give them a heavy dose of slowness. Maybe even mining fatigue too. This would completely "immobilize" them, and the effect could last longer than it does now and still be balanced. It would be pretty devastating for a rusher (or anyone) to experience. But they don't have to just stare at their screen for several seconds when this happens. It would involve skill from both sides to either follow through with or to counter.

    #2
    Immobilize them with the way it works now, but allow them to hit back. However, the immobilizer and the victim cannot hit each other. This would stop them dead in their tracks, and, if the immobilizer has teammates around, they could easily surround the victim and take them out. But it still gives the player a fighting chance to escape.

    #3
    (My least favorite of my ideas) Allow certain classes to fully escape the Immobilizer with their abilities. Let an assassin's leap, an acrobat's jump, a dasher's dash, a scout's grapple, etc be a way to fully sever the Immobilizer's effect. It would definitely be a decent fix to the problem, but would still just require more class juggling which I'm not necessarily a huge fan of.



    That's pretty much all I got. I'm making this to see what others think. I just find the Immobilizer class to be very frustrating, unfair, and skilless. And I know Anni could do better than having a class like that. I'm still very against solo rushing being easy. Anni is a team game. But that doesn't mean one class should make a solo act be impossible. Let me know what ya'll think. Thanks for reading.

  2. DutchSurvivor Obsidian

    XP:
    512,525xp
    What is immobilizer?
  3. Darth_Bachious Retired Staff

    XP:
    257,144xp
    #2 works pretty well. I would rather make #1 that all the enemies within a certain radius receive de debuffs upon activation, in order to give the class more teamfight opportunities instead of going for 1 player (like swapper and scorpio do).

    nerf scout instead
    Superbob1000 likes this.
  4. SpookyBob1000 Retired Staff

    XP:
    144,502xp
    That is a great idea as well, I think. Would make it less of a targetting class, and it would still be useful against clan rushes unlike its current state.
    Darth_Bachious likes this.
  5. zoomninja3000 Regular Member

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    45,007xp
    Perhaps it being impossible to immobilize an invisible player would work. However, I would expect this would cause a few hundred coding issues or otherwise be difficult to code.
  6. sandstoner Platinum

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    510,009xp
    Use a shield.
    Ichir0san, Aegisthes, incred_ and 2 others like this.
  7. NyvexOfShadows Regular Member

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    1,604xp
    Agreed. Meta needs to less stale and repetitive.
  8. Ivandagiant Silver

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    37,477xp
    Fact is, immobilizer is anti-fun for ALL players involved. Needs a complete redesign/rework, not just a nerf
    Superbob1000 and Darth_Bachious like this.
  9. SpookyBob1000 Retired Staff

    XP:
    144,502xp
    Shields work somewhat but personally I hate how shields cover half the screen when you play. Also, I don't believe that shields should be a necessity to make it out alive from a class' ability. Thirdly, shields do not work well when there's more than one attacker with the immobilizer, namely in a rush.
  10. Tobi472 Platinum

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    1,636,476xp
    You can just lower the shield with 2 easy edits
    incred_ likes this.
  11. Motumbo Platinum

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    2,365,096xp
    TY bob, all the reason, immo NEEDS a rework.
    Superbob1000 likes this.
  12. Tobi472 Platinum

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    If you really think it needs a rework why do you complain now and not a few years earlier where we really had an op immo??????
  13. sandstoner Platinum

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    510,009xp

    It wouldn't work against 3 people, of course. Nobody should survive a coordinated 3v1. immo won't make the difference in that case
    Aegisthes, incred_ and JeTi_Brothers like this.
  14. SpookyBob1000 Retired Staff

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    So you're saying that a coordinated 3 player attack by leathers should be able to take out a full diamond with one click and some hitting? I disagree with that notion. Maybe if it was something that involved a little more skill (a very effective swapper trap, or a hunter trap ambush), but one or two immobilizers shouldn't be able to easily take out a full diamond. With my proposed solutions, they would still possibly be able to if they played their cards right (using bows or combined with other classes), but it would not be as easy and non-strategic.
    Ivandagiant likes this.
  15. Ivandagiant Silver

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    "nobody should survive a coordinated 3v1"
    What terrible gameplay that would be. Skill and gear should be the leading factor towards winning a fight, NOT having some pocket immo following you around simply right clicking an enemy the entire game. The game has so much more depth when you and your friends are hunting down a wizard, using your abilities and tools to block off his escape route and tagging in and out to fight him. All of this potential is lost when you introduce an immo into the mix. The magic is gone. The intense gameplay and decision making is all shattered in an instant. It just isn't fun.
    SpookyBob1000 likes this.
  16. sandstoner Platinum

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    510,009xp

    Assuming that the group of 3 players is coördinated, they will probably have some iron gear aswell. and in your case when they just have wood/stone swords they won't be able to kill a full health diamond guy. (sidenote, 2 immos isnt possible because there's a cooldown before someone can get immod for the second time)





    You literally described teamwork, that thing that the gamemode is based around. The thing why i believe (opinion alert) wizard isnt viable right now is because it won't stop the really popular scout class, and immo does. And yet again, if people target you with immo, use a shield. It's not that hard.
  17. SpookyBob1000 Retired Staff

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    144,502xp
    No I'm not talking about coordinated irons. I'm saying that an immobilizer and two other coordinated leathers, using the right classes and tricks, can easily take out a solo full diamond, and it just shouldn't be possible that way. Plausible and even likely, sure. But I don't think immobilizer adds anything needed to the game, and it even breaks a lot of the fun to be had.



    As to your response to Ivan, is Scout the issue you have? If Scout was nerfed/removed would you want immobilizer out then too? I agree that Scout should probably be nerfed, but in the meantime I think immobilizer is stronger than Scout in many (not all) regards
    Ivandagiant likes this.
  18. sandstoner Platinum

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    510,009xp
    If scout is gone i'd still keep immobilizer, but thats because of my vision on the game (which can be different for everyone). I'd personally like to see classes that thrive through teamwork. Classes like immobilizer, swapper, builder, berserker etc. suck when playing solo. But when playing with others while communicating all of these classes can become staples within a single game of anni. Other classes like scout have this fixed power level. they don't thrive as much as other classes when coöperating and others are supposed to take desperate measures to stop them. Immo is one of those desperate measures in this case and i do agree that immo definitely is powerfull. But changing the scenario where both sides have teamwork immo will be useless. When the solo diamond starts coöperating and communicating like a team should he will have a friend with him or a back up plan. In this scenario immobilizer becomes worthless.

    To sum up this stupid message: Teamwork > Strong/broken classes

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