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No Prefix Scout class OP ?

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by doctor566, Jan 11, 2021.

No Prefix - Scout class OP ?
  1. doctor566 Regular Member

    XP:
    199,600xp
    I just want to bring into mind at how over powered and abused the scout class is. the player/ users have no caps on how often they can use their grapple making it nearly imposable to out run one and i just think its a massive un fair advantage compared to other classes which continue to be nerfed. but not scout ??? its about a 10-15 second wait for an acrobats jump to reload ??? how is that fair compared to scout which must be able to grapple every 2-5 seconds if even that.

  2. GamerHamza Platinum

    XP:
    2,312,565xp
    ok lets look at the numbers:
    Scout got 2.5 seconds cd
    Arcobat got 10 seconds cd
    Dasher got 5 to 20 seconds cd (depending on the distance u choose)

    Dasher got the best movement ability but highest cd.
    Arcobat got the easiest and most flexible Ability and a medium cd.
    Scout got the hardest to use but the ability is better than arco if mastered.

    Its really dump to say that the cd of scout is fair if compared to the other classes. If you look at the rare numbers it would mean scouts ability is 4 times weaker but I believe its more useful than arcobats ability but harder to use.
    So from the power lvl its fair to say they are about the same but scout needs more training. If you take the drawbacks of hard counters into account, the skill cap and your grapple sometimes not working I would say its only half as strong as arcobat but never a quarter!

    Half as strong would mean the cd would be 5 seconds. You still would be able to escape everyone and chase everyone. But it would increase the skill cap even further.
    Would it change much? I dont believe it would tbh. But ppl would need some time to adapt and stop crying. After a few weeks ppl would play it again and you have the same problem.

    My solution would be the complete removal or just disable the class for 2 weeks and see how it turns out.

    Last words: Scout is the most frustraiting thing to encounter as a new player. Its more hated than 10 dia ppl rushing ur base, bc the scout just overpowers u man by man and you have no tools to deal with it.
  3. lPirlo Regular Member

    XP:
    318,118xp
    I think anni without scout will better. Scout is boring.
  4. GiveLifeB2Music Platinum

    XP:
    1,259,392xp
    Use FireAspect Sword or Bard slow ez counter scouts.
    exodus likes this.
  5. Huniepiebun Regular Member

    XP:
    23,238xp
    Scout class is just plain autistic lol. Players doing hit n run and they're always the ones with enchanted diamond. Just overall stupid.
    Eleehas, Hingey, Ivandagiant and 3 others like this.
  6. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    XP:
    303,269xp
    These changes would not change the scout playstyle at all, these are purely balance changes.
    • Scout shouldn't have permanent Speed I (with leather armor) and it should be removed. It actually contributes more than just speed, it also gives you first hit advantage, on top of having the best movement ability in the game bar none.
    • Scouts should not be able to void grapple. Short of using a class that can stop grappling, scouts that do this usually live, regardless of gear or enemies present.
  7. GamerHamza Platinum

    XP:
    2,312,565xp
    this would mean nerf to leather scout, nerf to bb armor scout and buff to full dia scout with speed
  8. GamerHamza Platinum

    XP:
    2,312,565xp
    Fire is helping the scout since the player will receive less hits. Bard box is the only kit that has a long enough slow to counter the disengage of the scout. The scout player will always be able to catch up with the Bard as long hes near his box but than he cant get away that easily or chase.
  9. Marii Obsidian

    XP:
    476,944xp
    Scout being able to chase anything/get away is fine, isn't it? It's the only good point of scout like bard/farmer can support mid fight, Transporter can be used for map control, scorp/swapper/Immo can catch an isolated enemy. etc... Who would use scout if u can't chase anyone or get away from other classes? (the nerf mysterious_seven suggested seems fair to me tho, scout doesn't need combat advantages.)

    The real problem is most people in normal games are interested in getting kills, not in winning the game. I see a lot of people minerushing but not attacking nexuses and they often leave at p3-p5 when they got killed.

    And reasons players use scout is just scout's ability is good at picking up kills not because it's broken. If you are really trying to win as a team, you would use other classes like transporter, bard, defender, etc... to control the map or defend your nexus and you would not use scout that often since it's not that good in fight.
    Yes, I understand getting chased by scout is frustrating and annoying but it doesn't mean they are overpowered.

    (pls ignore grammar mistakes, English is not my first language)
  10. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    XP:
    303,269xp
    Scout the best solo class hands down. Unfortunately, this means that any solo player worth his salt HAS TO PLAY SCOUT or be at a huge disadvantage. Over time this has gotten very stale and it leads to uninspiring combat for veterans and new players alike. Scout needs to be pruned down to its single skill and a one or two classes need to be redesigned with the express purpose to be a competitor to Scout while not invalidating the philosophy of Scout or the games combat as a whole.

    The first and second change to Dasher put the class in such a position. But relatively recently Dasher got a +14 second CD increase at max range on top of a slight nerf in range overall, effectively crippling the class as a competitor to Scout, the minimum range also made the class useless for dealing with many swapper traps which as far as I can tell is the only other use. Also, In my opinion the scaling CD is fluff that isn't intuitive or fun and is just the result of coders 'shooting from the hip.'

    Right now, Pyro is your best bet out there for versing Scout, Bard if you've got quick reaction time.
    Ivandagiant likes this.
  11. Ivandagiant Silver

    XP:
    37,977xp
    Wizard is actually extremely effective at taking out scouts. Freeze is pretty easy to hit, and if you need more time you still have flame to disable his grapple, or whirlwind to catch up to him. (despite this, it is still extremely difficult to finish off a scout. You can get them low but they will almost always escape, and then avoid you for the rest of the game)

    Anyway, the issue with scout it how you can "hold" momentum. Like, if you time your grapple and jump right, you can launch yourself a pretty ridiculous distance. Doesn't take much to pull off. If someone tries to stop you, you can just throw your grapple and either launch yourself past him, or run around him. If he approaches you, you launch, if he stays back, you walk around. The short cooldown lets you continuously do this, making it nearly impossible to reach you. Atleast dasher has a lengthy cooldown to give you a chance at a fight.
    Mysterious_Seven likes this.
  12. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

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    303,269xp
    Only if they're near you. You kidding me with that spell speed?
    [IMG]
  13. NyvexOfShadows Regular Member

    XP:
    14,166xp

    This is a great point. Scouts are almost always used for combat, even if they have the tools to be a very agile and mobile aggression class. Why can't it be used solely for its phenomenal mobility? It's quite possibly the most powerful in the game. With such great potential for rushing, why is it used for combat interactions 75% of the time? The cooldowns and limitations on Dasher and Acrobat have enough of a drawback to permit standard combat capability. Why is scout seeing an advantage in it? Speed is a heavy contender for this... you can catch up to a normal player or have chance to get away more easily, grapple aside.

    Removing speed as Seven suggested is a very valid change. If the grapple is your main mobility, and it's power level is trend-setting, why give it something nice on the side? It doesn't need an extra kick when the grapple's versatility offers that in the first place. Void grappling is also a great idea, I don't want to see bungees being seen as an extra life that can be renewed constantly. These are great ideas to consider, but I have a few myself.

    One potential change I want to put in the pool of scout changes is grapple direction. What if the grapple was used only for reaching high vantage points instead of far ones? Would a grapple be a cool way to jump higher and reach high nexuses on maps like Andorra and Skylands, or to scale mountainous/ravine-like terrain on Aftermath or Canyon? It currently does that a bit but also has a strong horizontal launch, which is the main combat advantage. Taking the horizontal movement away and increasing the vertical launch could make the class focus on climbing -- more easily so than spider, which has web that teammates and enemies alike can use -- and not on flinging itself across a river in two casts?

    Another change could be grapple durability. What if the grapple only had a few uses? With a fishing rod ("grapple" item) you would get around 70 uses of the item, which some may think is a bit much. What if you could only use it five times? Ten times? Twenty? Forty? There's some ways to look at it that could alter the intent of the grapple. A limited number of uses could keep Scout's Speed in play, but the ability to launch yourself at someone's back while they're 10 blocks away from you would become limited use.
    Mysterious_Seven likes this.
  14. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

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    303,269xp
    That would suck. You'd be better off buffing Acrobat jump or playing Assassin or Dasher all the while nerfing scouts vertical movement*, keeping the well coveted chase of Scout, but stopping them from monopolizing all forms and directions of movement. Even without taking into account the backlash that would be felt, changing the mechanics of Scout's Grapple is a bad idea. The Grapple as a certain feel to it and changing the fundamentals of such a well known class ability would almost be like changing the identity of Annihilation as a whole. I think I can speak for all of us when I say that Scout is the face of Annihilation and needs to be handled with great care.

    This was actually a bug fix way back in the early days of Anni. To put it bluntly, people were just mad that they couldn't play their class. It also would somewhat lower the skill ceiling and make it less accessible to new players.

    *Damaging the item if you stretched it further than normal or if you used it to climb would be an interesting addition/nerf however, as it would associate a cost to some types of movement for the Scout.

    Scout grapple could just auto detach after say 5 seconds. Doubtful that it would impact much, it'd probably just overcomplicate things, but its worth mentioning.
  15. donnerblitz_1 Artist

    XP:
    79,145xp
    Even easier, try give it some Slowness after using the Grapple and get rid of the cooldown because of the natural cooldown when Slowness runs out, this would make it friendler to master and gives it a slight debuff
  16. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

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    303,269xp
    Right after you released the grapple, assuming you jumped as usual, you would be launched a shorter distance because of the slowness. This would have an (presumably) unintended affect on the distance travelled using the ability if not somehow accounted for.

    To many consecutive grapples could be penalized with a debuff instead. Usually what is used to increase downtime is to increase the Cooldown or add a multi-charge system like spiderwebs or throwing stars, I'm still not sure what would make for a good downtime idea for Scout. Even so, the more ideas the better.
  17. commando0301 Silver

    XP:
    14,633xp
    SCOUT IS LITERALLY RUINING ANNI having a grappling hook, especially a spammable one is ridiculously busted and not even fun to play against. EVERYONE plays scout and just rushes at the beginning. it's IMPOSSIBLE to do anything and the game is unplayable in it's current state. which is why the server is dead.
  18. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

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    303,269xp
    For what reason have you woken me from my slumber? Your hubris will be the beginning of a legendary swift demise!
    (18-month Necropost lol)
  19. commando0301 Silver

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    14,633xp
    ? you may as well be slumbering for eternity, as i have read your replies to each post (about 7 of them) asking for this class to be nerfed. your mind is already made up, most likely because you're a scout main. it's sad.
  20. cjn839 Regular Member

    XP:
    119,552xp
    So many ppl using SCO.
    Few ppl using ACR and DAS.
    This is answer.

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