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Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Marine_PvP, Oct 22, 2018.
Reasonable choice by staff
First off: thanks for taking the time to reply in a civil manner. However I still disagree:
Perhaps you were staff at a time when the influx of hackers wasn't as great. It has definitely increased in the past 2 years or so. Just in the first week of this month, we had over 4,000 bans placed due to the massive amount of hackers (bots) on all of our gamemodes. To purge all of these bans would tell the hackers that they can re-use their old banned accounts—and as you know as a staff member, all of us must record all evidence. All of that would be lost.
Yep, I agree that this is going to be a majority of the people here. There are going to be two subcategories of these people:
People who've never been banned before —> play normally
People who've been banned before —> "Damn, this sounds like fun! Okay, I was stupid back then a few years ago. I'll appeal, get a response within 2 weeks, and get playing MineZ like the good old days!" Simple as that. It's quite likely that if they were only hacking a while ago, as I said earlier, if they show that they've matured, we will most likely unban them.
Not sure why they can't just submit an appeal...? Not following your logic here.
Including the thousands of bots that have attacked us just this month?
I'm not in charge of the blacklist, but in my opinion this is ridiculous—I agree that if someone were to show sorrow and show that they have matured since 4 years ago, then they should be removed from the blacklist. Perhaps times have changed on the team, because I don't see much of that on the team anymore.
If you were staff before, you would know that we require staff to be sure that the suspect is actually hacking. For some people like ghost clienters, the staff team has had to work together to compile many, many videos just to have enough evidence to ban one person. There is a long banning process for these types of people, and our staff can't be online 24/7.
Tell that to all the people who call us bad admins for not banning enough hackers. There are way too many malicious people out there, whether they're blatant hackers or ghost clienters. I don't see a way to please both you and the players because one party will always be upset.
I never said we aren't forgiving once in six years. Submit a ban appeal, and we will be forgiving.
I see you've already found this thread. Unfortunately Navarr is the only one who can change forum usernames and he's out on temporary leave due to personal issues. It'll have to wait!
Again, thanks for being civil and I hope you can see my argument!
I don't think there's a reason I would reply with malice. It's a discussion, and although it seems you're firm in your stance (are you the CoMa?) and it's pretty much just looking like food for thought now, I implore you to look at the benefits further. I promise you I have absolutely nothing to gain from this as none of my accounts are banned and I'm suggesting something that would only help something I once loved.
I can put money on it, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I was staff when the hacker situation was worse. I joined the MineZ team around May of 2015, when the game was still relatively successful and TeamVG was still going on (if you know what that is, most MineZ players do), and was full admin by April 2016 and I'm guessing I had 15-20k bans (weird flex but ok) on all of the gamemodes by myself by the time I stepped down a year and a half later. I digress though, because this statistic you mentioned has no relevancy to what we're talking about. As you said, the majority of these are alt accounts (or bots) from lists, and just banning those accounts does nothing if their neverending objective is to still terrorize your server. I can link you to 3 different sites where you can buy migrated NFA alts 50/$0.03. Those accounts mean nothing to them and they will continue doing what they do regardless of if their account with no value is banned. The only people that would value this and directly gain from this are mostly since-banned Premiums.
I suppose I should have addressed this here rather than last paragraph, but as I mentioned, these old banned accounts mean nothing to the ones attacking you (multiple accounts). And if you're referring to people that had their main account banned for hacking, that's the whole idea of it. Reuse your old banned account, and if you mess up after this one chance you're getting since we updated our policies, you're forever donezo bucko. The fact that you guys (I thought it was only Minis that had to record?) have to have evidence of a ban has no correlation to resetting the ban list. So far as this would happen, it's a clean slate, so this hard work you mentioned is unrelated because nobody is going to contest that ban if they're not banned. You guys typically average 60-120 US players at any given time and peak 200 or so, so it's telling that 99% of the 4000 banned accounts you quoted are just people that are going to burn alts and hack anyways.
I think the most important piece of information here is the fact that they'll have to wait up to two weeks (and let's be honest, there's a chance their appeal will be swept under the rug and it'll be more than that). Call it laziness, a lack of care, or whatever, but the reality is that the majority of people this would be affecting are casual players that just want to check stuff out and relive their childhood, not diehard fans of Shotbow. They're not going to take the time to structure a whole ban appeal, wait two weeks actively checking, and then subjectively be unbanned by somebody with an opinion on how good their appeal is, and if it's not up-to-standards have to reappeal. At that point they really won't care, and probably will have forgotten. We're talking about people that were banned years ago, they just want to see if it's something they'd enjoy again. The care aspect is irrelevant.
Yes, even them. They don't give a shit about their thousands of bot accounts.
Time is subjective and every different admin has a different concept of when they feel somebody could have matured. I could say it could be 1 year, you could say it has to be 6. This eliminates that confusion and just lets people prove themselves. You're probably right that times have changed though because a majority of the admins that I'm talking about are either retired or inactive but still on the team.
I like how you keep saying "if" I was staff before. I riled ol' Navarr up a little bit, got a shirt with a picture of his face on it, and got my Retired Staff tag removed unfortunately. He even made it so the site sends more packets to my main account on these forums, which effectively makes it emulate a DoS attack so it was laggy enough that I couldn't post. You win this one Barnier!
Regardless, like I've said many times, this is a clean slate. Your videos would no longer matter because that evidence and ban reason would be obsolete. At this point in time you allow people to go on alts, and they could keep ghost clienting then. But your new policy (to which I agree with) makes it so that they can't keep coming back on alts. So allow them to play on their main until you compile enough evidence of ghost clienting then they're never allowed on again.
These are two separate issues on the flipside of the same coin. Banning enough hackers =/= giving people second chances. You're not pleasing or displeasing anybody by unbanning these accounts, because there will always be hackers regardless. You're just doing a gracious move for older players if you unban their accounts.
Again, what I'm suggesting is merely a marketing device that you will only benefit from, which is the reason why so many servers employ it into their resets. There are a lot of people that still play games on other servers like HCF or Hypixel that once were banned years ago. If they see "ban list completely wiped, come check out the new stellar MineZ update", they're going to come and see what's up. That's a fact.
Thanks for your genuine care about the server. While you have some valid points I still disagree, but I'd just be repeating myself if I made a response. To respond to a few of your messages: no, I'm not CoMa, and I don't think we have one at the moment. In addition, when I said "if" you were staff before, I very well know of your situation — didn't mean to accuse you of not being staff.
PTR PTR PTR
where's my name on buildings ;-;
Premium has basically been rendered irrelevant in this argument (ignoring the fact that premiums get double or more xp). lots of people, premium or not, have grapples these days. People who have them now have a distinct, uncounterable (definitely a word) edge in combat. At least sugar can counter a speed potion. What counters what basically amounts to a critical teleport? Maybe sugar can counter that too, but people with grapples are also pretty likely to have speed potions.
Sounds like you haven't played in a long time. The only real problem with your suggestion is that there aren't as many admins online as there used to be. There are people hacking on this server for hours, days, in a couple cases weeks at a time without ever getting caught. It's easier now to hack here than ever. Sure, there are some people who definitely have changed, but a ban purge would just allow tons of people who have every intention of killing the game for other people to come on here and make hackers like, 50% of MineZ's population. Nothing could be done about it.
I should probably be siding with you, honestly; the sorry state that Shotbow is in right now breaks my heart, and more than anything I want to see it die with finality rather than whimper out with like three players online a day (ala A'therys or MCSG). But I've still got a few friends who play and enjoy MineZ; I can't in good conscience kill all their fun. There's probably a better way than what they're doing though; administration hasn't always been the best about ban appeals, and some staff members can definitely hold a grudge.
kudos on the Navarr thing, btw
You should sell those shirts, dude. I'd totally buy one.
gapple now bad . potion II 3 sec drink = 4.5 heart , gapple 3 sec eat + 4sec regen = 2heart + 2.5 heart still 4.5 heart, i think gapple need 3 gold heart and 3 red heart regen. 6 heart its good
I second this. Old gapple was too overpowered but 3 hearts of regen and absorption sounds fine.
I first thought this was one of those wraps
I hope to not rile up anything here but here goes. You all know who I am probably, so take my voice with a grain of salt - I am a dinosaur who belongs to the past. This being said:
I do agree with a ban purge - in fact, if I may ask so, feel free to revert and unban any ban I have done during my time here. I won't be offended in the slightest. Looking back, except some very rare cases, any ban longer than one year is preposterous and counterproductive.
In any case, all I ask is to please give a chance to anyone banned by myself considering the time passedand the fact that, if I were still able to,I would accept any appeal for the most case.
Happy to see loot changes, but less happy to see that still you had to manually place chest on the whole map again. Surely there's a better alternative for bulk edits... Just my perspective from history: loot is a pivotal focus of the game as everything gravitate around it. Changing is often is a necessity, not a leisure. The more dynamic the updates are, the more the loot need to adapt - try to not do it like I did and do a big, whole map replacement every year or so but to keep track (something I wanted to do but never did) and adjust every bit every update.
I would never claim my placement was the best, albeit I thin it was pretty darn good - I hope you'll found it nice and fun while it lasted.
Someone mentioned the difference in saturation: that was one of the big drives for having more food, along with make people stay in the mid-north once they got there. Same with Smite swords - somewhat the loot was adapted to the existing gameplay instead of the other way around. I wonder how much has changed!
Can't say much on anything else as I did not play for a long time. I do remember the PvP enthusiasm thought, so I hope that flame as well will be rekindled.
Overall pretty nice changes, in terms of gameplay with zombies is good to go back to the game's roots but I also hope everything will evolve - nothing the community has not asked for years! Glad to see someone finally had time and courage to bite legacy code and reinvent it. Mad props Doc.
Interesting changes for the @ function, especially for old people (and Staff). I always found it to be very intuitive, more than a / command butI guess that's just me.
PS: Wayvernia, go in a server and check out my room in the Admin Bunker if it's still there and explore it very carefully. You may want to remove some history I left there.
People that spend 3 hours gearing also have said advantage,
It took you a bit to obtain the grapple, nothing stops others from doing the same thing, I supported the argument when premiums got the grapple without spending hours getting the achievement.
The Man, The Legend, The Majicou himself! Nice to see you here you old dinosaur! Hope you're still doing well and as great in life as when I last spoke to you. Yeah I know of your room in the admin bunker, I think I might know what you are talking about... I'll go take a look for ya!
is origins pt 2 ever going to make an appearance?
Honestly I'd rather see the game be fixed and work rather than more content being slapped on top of a broken game.
Add the leather chestplate in the spawn kit to the xp shop
Agree with Majicou and Bio on the ban purge. I feel like it's something which is not even being considered, and I really do think it needs to be. Admins have said it themselves that the main goal of PTR is to bring the population back. No better way to do this than a ban purge. Especially with the re-addition of horizontal grappling, where players are going to want to play on their main accounts which have grapples. Sure, you can tell them to "just appeal". But for someone who is just trying to test out the game again to see if they want to make a return, writing a long appeal only to have to wait 3-6 weeks for it to be responded to doesn't make sense.
Mistri also mentioned that a ban purge would be essentially deleting the progress made by admins. I disagree because you just reworked your ban system. All it takes is 1 hacking ban now to recieve an IP ban. Where as before, you could hack on unlimited accounts, which were 1 by 1 banned by admins. This would mean with one ban, you could make up for large fractions of the progress lost.
I'd like this to be more of a conversation than it is. I think admins are not even considering this idea, and I'm really curious as to why. All thats really been said why is that it's "deleting admins progress", but a lot in life are you taking steps back in order to take leaps forward.
Only thing I could really see this getting in the way is Annihilation bans. I understand a lot more hacking and bleh goes on over in Anni. This may not be possible, but maybe unban everyone from MineZ but still have Annihilation bans remain? Some servers allow you to join a servers hub when banned, but once you try to join a gamemode, you recieve your ban message. Maybe this could happen, with MineZ bans being purged and Anni bans staying? ^^^^ Just a thought, probably way easier said than done. But hey, you said you want suggestions.
Separate names with a comma.