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No Prefix Nerfing Scout...

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by Hingey, Jul 16, 2017.

No Prefix - Nerfing Scout...
  1. Hingey Platinum

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    I know about half of the people in the anni use scout I dont blame you for doing so it is a fun class. What I cant stand are the scouts that run away from fights or just run around your base to be annoying. There for I propose a final solution to nerfing scout.
    Give the grapple a 5 second combat delay.
    That way scout can keep its mobility and PvP aspect but, not be as annoying to other players that want to play as other classes. When shot with a bow or hit by another player(with anything) the scout grapple is disabled letting other players without super speed have a fair fight. This should not be activated by outside damage such as fall damage, cactus and, somehow getting set on fire??. If the player was grappled and then hit by another player they scout would not be pulled toward it. I'm still not sure weather ranged class abilities should activate a cool down on the grapple? Also the time could be lowered although 5 seconds is a fair enough time to out run your foe normaly.

  2. Hingey Platinum

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    Sorry for the weird format wont let me fix it.
    If this is considered I think the fire nerf would no longer be needed.
  3. Hazel_VB Regular Member

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    I think it's a great idea!
    DiegoG0505 and Hingey like this.
  4. khalkists Platinum

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    At minimum, detach the grapple whenever the scout is hit.
  5. Hingey Platinum

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    814,651xp
    I really like that. Make it harder for scouts to get away but wont be as annoying as a cool down.
    _RunningKing_ likes this.
  6. Dackster98 Regular Member

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    Lower that from 5 to 2 secs and I would support it
    _RunningKing_ likes this.
  7. Hingey Platinum

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    I really like khalkists's idea where the grapple detaches after being hit.
    ChickenMac7 likes this.
  8. Link3523 Regular Member

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    I also agree with the 5 second combat delay. When you get hit (or in a fight) they can't use a grapple for 5 seconds i really feel like that would be way better for a nerf!
    Hingey likes this.
  9. DR_DRE_HERE Regular Member

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    its definatily a good idea and scouts will still have an advantage withe the speed.
    Also how many grappling can it take till it breaks.
    Hingey likes this.
  10. MODERNMEGa Regular Member

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    I tried Scout with combat timer with a few #TBC members (idea by JesseTheSkrub) and it was so bad. Scout does not need nerf. Already it is buggy anymore. We need just 500 nexus mission back.

    If developers will add combat timer, please add the oldest Scout with combat timer.

    Maashg
    Hingey likes this.
  11. Hingey Platinum

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    Scout still needs a major nerf. And yes shotbow's first mistake was making scout buy-able or earn able via master 1.
    ChromosomeCramp likes this.
  12. NotInRange Regular Member

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    Why are you people so obsessed over nerfing the same class over and over. Scout physics are already all kinds of wack so you actually kinda struggle with using the class, and the combat delay won't really help because if you don't hit him for 5 seconds or you miss your bow shots, your problems gonna come back again. Just leave the class be, stop beating a dead horse. Why don't we talk about nerfing literately any other class but the same bandwagon over and over. Archers are pretty annoying but theres no nerf complaints about that...
  13. BowspamUToDeath Platinum

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    716,447xp
    Please do not nerf scout at this point.

    Scout was originally made as a mobility class with a PVP advantage.

    Scout is just becoming like invisible tactics and sword PVP, the Administrators/Developers keep nerfing it to the point where it might as well be removed by now. Scout's already have a fair disadvantage with a easily diminishing sword and grapple in terms of durability not to mention the fire nerf. Sword damage has already been nerfed which also makes me question why are Administrators/Developers are promoting bow combat and bow spam with the addition and remodeling of several bow classes. Scout is already weakened by its weak gold sword, short life of a grapple, nerfed powerful swords such as Sharp IVs, and the disabled grapple while on fire. The fact that some tactics/classes keep getting nerfed is one of the most repetitive and irritating things I've ever seen in the evolution of the game mode Annihilation have it be Invisible potions, scout, or sword PVP. Invisible potions have been buffed due to the glowing effect of mercenary and sword PVP has been nerfed with the amount of damage being relatively little with a sword such as a Sharp IV sword which already takes a toll on all PVP classes including scout which is never mentioned as a already existing nerf of scout. Plus, there are many strategies I'm sure people can learn and discover to successfully counter scout whether it is a surprised scorpio attack or finding some effective way to counter a Scout's Speed I strafes.

    Archer is one of the most irritating classes for many and especially when being used to bowspam (remember, Punch I makes it worse). I made a great decently balanced class to combat this issue yet I received relatively no feedback on the the thread which would have the potential to counter the archer or sniper kit. This upsets me because the community apparently seems to be just focused on hating specific classes only and not considering other necessary criticisms. Don't even get me started with all of the potential nerfs that could go into Immobilizer, Thor, Pyro, etc.

    Link is here to the class I was mentioning:

    https://shotbow.net/forum/threads/jedi.374665/

    Overall, this thread may have some truth and points into it, but I really consider that the Shotbow Community and Developers decides to make an effort to not constantly render down, nerf, and downgrade a popular class and focus on other classes that could actually use a practical nerf.
  14. Musicano Regular Member

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    I don't think Scout needs any other nerfs. Other classes just might need buff.
  15. DR_DRE_HERE Regular Member

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    nah scout isnt as amazing as everyone says.
    Hingey likes this.
  16. Corrade Regular Member

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    Alright, the argument over Scout is clearly not a dead horse as many experienced people have been sharing opposing viewpoints on the issue and are continuing to place suggestions and arguments. Saying the class shouldn't be looked at because people have been/are looking at it too much - note I didn't even say buff/nerf, merely looking at - is frankly idiotic, and you can't tell me that isn't exactly what this bit of your post says Snikers;
    If anything, a mess of opinions means something actually needs FURTHER discussion.

    Also, this mentioning of Scout being the only class people are wanting nerfs for is completely incorrect; see this and this, which do actually discuss classes like Immo and Thor (amongst many others), and I'm sure Pyro's been brought up in recent threads.

    And I think this is the problem more than anything; so many people are putting forward opinions, but a lot of us aren't listening to others (and I'm not excluding myself from this either).
    Like, ok, you've got an opinion - yeah, so do I, so do the people that have started the three Scout-related threads currently on the front page, so do the many users commenting on them; but you can't just give your opinion on the issue and then not defend it from people who argue against it, or we'll get nowhere.
    So here are the recent Scout threads; 1, 2, and this one, and I would think reading them would benefit the situation a lot, even if the posts are quite lengthy. I think you'll find the people wanting a nerf have much stronger arguments (ignoring my posts).


    That being said I do think Scout needs changes, and I'm gonna try to argue that. I don't really mind if you disagree, but PLEASE say why so something progresses.
    I think Scout is both too versatile and too effective. I can't say I have experience playing it myself, however being at the receiving end and going off of others' arguments which have not been directly refuted, I think it is reasonable to say the class is great in combat.
    Therefore the low durability of the sword and grapple don't seem to be significant enough to hamper the class. Also low durability on the starting sword becomes irrelevant after mid-game, but alright it is still a thing and I'm interested in seeing what people who have played the class a lot feel about the durability.
    Snikers your argument on the sword nerfs applies to all pretty much every class (aside from the bow ones), so saying it's a balancing factor of Scout in particular doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying swords shouldn't be changed, but rather that topic has no relevance with Scout specifically.
    I and Alex (I think) have disagreed with the claim that fire is a valid counter on the 2 other Scout threads, and no one has responded to what we've said, so how the hell am I supposed to be convinced that this 'fire argument' is good?


    I'll give you some feedback on your class Snikers.
    The sci-fi theme of a Jedi could not be more out of place beside the current fantasy theme of classes, though I'll admit this isn't a huge issue as words could simply be changed.

    The ability to completely block arrows even given the shield raise delay seems quite overpowered. This was mentioned by Alex in your thread but it doesn't seem like you addressed it at all - what's the point of asking for feedback if you don't take it into account? On top of this there's the reflection ability, where I'm guessing 'shoot them back in any direction' means the direction of reflection is randomized.
    I think this element of randomness, particularly in the class' core mechanic, is incredibly awful. It doesn't involve skill, makes the class' impact inconsistent and would most likely feel very unfair on the receiving end, especially when the ability is so powerful. You've compounded this by including a further 5% chance of the reflection being completely accurate.

    You also mentioned the class would have the same whirlwind ability as the Wizard, but I feel like recycling abilities will reduce the uniqueness of both involved classes.
    Either way, it might be a bit too powerful as it'd give a mobility ability to a class that's able to resist arrows, which would allow it to cover quite a few bases. An all-rounder type class would be cool, but having abilities that focus on one specialisation is probably more balanced and is definitely how the current classes seem to be designed.
    Aside from these issues, I do like the idea of a sort of anti-bow class, but I think this one needs a lot of adjustments to be considered balanced.
  17. Hingey Platinum

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    First of all to the scout users who say scout got nerfed enough is completely untrue. The "nerf"s or Cons to scout arent even cons the fact that you cant cant grapple while on fire makes you a normal kit its not negative toward the player its self. Almost all other classes have a negitive side effect to the player not the class. For instance warrior takes more damage when using the frenzy ability or when dasher dashes it loses hunger makeing it an actual negative to the player not the class. Scout realy has no cons for how powerful its ability's are.

    And please dont talk about nerfing other classes when we all know this one needs work way more.
    ChromosomeCramp likes this.
  18. Hingey Platinum

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    My suggestion keeps the idea of the mobility class aspect. These "nerfs" you talk about arent nerfs. Like i said above scout has no negative impact to the player my suggestion doesnt either. You can still run from a fight like a normal player would how is that a nerf?
  19. Hingey Platinum

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    Said like a true scout. Hmm... I wonder why the community still complains about scout if its not OP? Maybe because people trying to play other classes are tired of being out played by fishermen with super speed. This whole physics part of scout really to be affecting scout enough to make it any less effective. Also i have a thread on bows and archer its self it should be getting a nerf from what i was told.
  20. khalkists Platinum

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    Scouts physics get wacky when your latency gets high. Otherwise, the hook attaches to any block (even tall grass!) and at that point, you are propelled towards that point.

    I have 1 other suggestion for scout. Instead of launching you, it gives you a powerful, but extremely short levitation effect when the hook is attached. As long as the hook is attached, the effect is renewed with an extremely short duration.
    When your Z level (vertical axis) is 2-3 blocks above your hook; the levitation is automatically disabled irregardless of duration.

    This means scouts will be able to ascend quickly like always; but they won't be able to dash. The ability will use minecraft mechanics for reliability. And the ability should be reliably restricted in vertical movement without erroneous changes in velocity. (ie: no launching)

    This also means that the server won't have to apply as many on-the-fly calculations to figure out the angle and distance between the player and hook, and won't need to adjust player velocity in any direction in particular; so less wonkiness.
    Hingey likes this.

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