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Discussion in 'MineZ' started by Marine_PvP, Jul 14, 2019.
Because there is not going to be an item update
What an update. Simply unbelievable
Notice how it says "Permanent", not "will be taken away at staff discretion". Updates are good, however, this update scams players.
Thanks for ignoring the part about me being guaranteed that I get a 1m30s speed pot when I bought it. You can't all of a sudden change what I bought. I bought a 1m30s speed pot, not a 50 second one.
The issue here In my opinion is that people have invested a lot of time and prep to either get 200xp or 5k zombie kills to get the speed pot. 200xp isn't exactly an easy thing to get, and the amount of time or ingame resources to get 5k zombie kills isn't really something to scoff at.
And now, the item has just been nerfed without any staff input or warning.
Personally I believe that you should have made the droppable speed pot better, perhaps 50 seconds and left the spawn speed pot at 1:30. This would solve the issue which I read in a thread that Marine stated (warning: Google translate ahead)
This would solve a few of these issues; the spawn speed pot would not need to be nerfed from it's promised duration and the spawn speed pot is not longer x3 the duration.
I don't really expect you to listen to this input, but I'm giving it, and it's a viable and potential solution that would solve both your justifications and the quite reasonable protests of myself and other players who have invested significant time to get this.
Great suggestion, they're not going to revert it. They seldom swallow their pride in changes like these and don't admit they're wrong in some cases.
You know the wiki is not a Official Shotbow source. The information their is gather by the players to show the players. Anything on the Wiki can be outdated on every update as the games changes and any item can and will change if needed.
No where on a Shotbow site (example: XP shop where you bought it) did it ever say 1:30 for the speed pot when gotten. It only ever said a speed pot will be given.
So you're telling me that since your website was not comprehensive in it's listing, that gives you an excuse to scam everyone? That's absolutely garbage logic at best and despicable either way. Have you read all the comments from the community? Are you even listening? Imagine the hundreds of people who haven't commented on this failure of an update.
I've run into groups of people with 4 speed pots each in the last week, sending screenshots showing off their speeds, you tell me how that's ok when your justification was 1:30 were too powerful and couldn't be countered. Now if you want to have a chance you have to go spend 10 hours looting some place to even compete with these people with infinite speed potions. Unbelievable how little thought was put into this update before rolling it.
It is not a excuse it is the truth. We can not be held accountable on site that are not Shotbow Official. Its like any company in the real world, if some other site said something that was not on the official site where you bought a product, it is not a true statement and that company is not doing anything wrong. And our terms clearly say that we can do this with no warning if needed.
On a side note, this change was reviewed and approved by the community of the MineZ Union (5-8 people of all the big clans and groups of the game). All community driven discord where everyone discuses and talk about changes and problems in the game to agree and vote on changes in the game that we use as feedback to shape the changes we are making and are needed to be made. And the major of that union where for this change on the poll and discussion that where made before the change went live.
So yes, we did listen to the community cause they are the ones that approved it. We can not make everyone happy with changes, all we can do is try to improve and fix problems the game has had for years to best of our ability.
If anyone wants to join in on the debates and polls/ represent their group message me on discord. Xcross15 #1925
But dont you advertise the wiki? And give special roles in your official Shotbow discord for people who contribute to it?
It's amazing how when an update is pushed out that people don't like, people have trouble discussing it without being assholes.
Anyway, this speed potion update really feels like a case where there was a problem and 2 individual solutions were thought of, but instead of getting one or the other we got both. While I do agree that having an objective advantage item that others don't isn't that fun to play against, I feel like the addition of lesser speed potions in chests could've already been enough, with the additional nerf to spawnkit potions just being excessive. Granted, there's still a significant duration difference between spawnkit and chest potions, but that's already balanced out by the fact that you're able to have more than one of these lower duration potions.
Something else I'd like to mention is that there's already a few legendary items which could be considered "counters" to speed potions. Items like the void bow, binding bow, binding helmet, and ninja sandals can all be used to give someone more of an edge against an attacker with a speed potion. Maybe a better solution than tampering with the existing speed potions would be to get more creative with the ways to counter them. Maybe try to emphasize use of these items or add new ones that are more common/easier to obtain, but still create interesting combat, I don't know. But I feel like the update would've been fine with just the addition of speed potions in chests, and if it had to be made more equal, a more creative solution would be interesting to see.
Counterplay is always better then nerfs
What if Speedpot can be used 2 times by 1 pot but 45secs? This makes less frustration while running to the north and should not be overpowered in every fight due to 15mins cooldown. and most importantly, players don't lose what actually they bought.
Also i think they should add fresh contents such as new items instead of adjusting current one. people feel boring and want to try something new while waiting for massive updates because their roadmap has been delayed 2 times.
I actually really like this suggestion, it never came up in our discussions.
Just add more content. These item rebalances/item removals serve limited purpose. More content provides counterplay, but legendaries aren't a good example of counterplay as their use is uncommon and their acquisition is usually for collections or reserved for combat at a different time. The speed potion nerf is acceptable but RELATIVELY pointless as it serves to help new players not get killed by premiums, as you have few new players. This nerf is comparable to the removal of horizontal grappling a long time ago in 2013 or 2012.
Adding more content provides a lot of things:
More locations gives more places for explorer/achiever playstyles
An eye of ender/radio provides well for those who are social
New items in loottables, or location-restricted items in loottables provide new things for explorers and fighter playstyles
New dungeons provide for those who are achiever playstyles(but it's a lot of effort for pretty low return on investment imo)
I'm gonna give you some examples of new items you could add that would be relatively easy to add:
createExplosion method provides parameters for fire
Cobweb-barbed wire setups(place them down to create a small line of cobwebs). Probably harder to implement, but just place blocks relative to the block that was placed if they are air(or do it similar to have Wasted did it with custom small placeable structures/prefabs).
Custom enchanted items: pretty much same as legendaries but you make them more accessable
New mob variants/elite/boss mob variants: rip code from MineZ 2 for the AI. Probably outdated or deprecated code used, but shouldn't be hard to fix
Claymores or mines. I think Annihilation has something to this effect already there
More potion variety and potion brewing/ingredients. Why can't we make levitation splash potions, or slow falling splash potions, or spectral arrows? Just lifting pointless restrictions and expanding the loottables(You've already well established that loot tables are easily modified for balance reason).
Minecraft provides a lot of options, and spigot/paperMC makes a lot of this relatively painless and fast to prototype and create. The bigger problem here probably isn't one of capability, but one of DESIGN(or lack of confidence to try new things). Hell you could even take inspiration from Annihilation, as they have a large amount of variety in gameplay that is sorely lacking in MineZ. Like SmartZ_ said, there probably won't be an item update.
createExplosion method provides parameters for fire
You put out these small updates that just piss everyone off, and then when the big update comes out no one wants to play it. You just shoot yourself in the foot constantly by pissing off your current playerbase and saying what that Doc is going to call up his Youtube friends when he thinks the server is ready? A lot of the YTers who played on this server back in the day were popular then sure but now, crickets.
Please for the love of god for once swallow your pride and instead of trying to make this your game, make it the communities game, the way it's been for years prior. We pay for your damn server! You see those donation messages fly in the discord and how do you repay them? Act arrogant towards your playerbase like regardless of the situation the staff team is always right? I quit the damn game again because I'm tired of having to play through a dead server and a horribly balanced game mode. Just LISTEN sometimes and maybe you won't be in as big of a hole as you are right now.
Amazing how true that is
This is what I've been saying, make more reasons for people to go to different parts of the map. Obviously each location should be balanced to provide loot that is to the same quality as the other locations on its z-vector, but I think we can have the same quality of loot without the same actual items. Right now the average experienced player just has their favourite route to gear up and doesn't bother with anything on a different x-coordinate range, because there's nothing to gain from that.
It would be great for the game if you had to go to a certain location for a specific item you could use, unique to that location/biome. Like a slowness grenade that spawns in the snow, or something to that nature. It would be fun if a 'full gear up' required you to go more places in the map rather than just anywhere south-north. For example I recently went around the map to each spire to get a full enchanted set, which was actually pretty fun and rewarding.
Definitely, we need forsakens in regular MineZ. The PvE-PvP balance played a massive role in the success of MineZ, but the danger from PvE is pretty much gone now and limited only to dungeons. Back in the day, zombies were actually a threat because people were less skilled in dealing with them, but now thats pretty much gone and zombies have been reduced to nothing but a slight annoyance. Even pigmen and giants are easy to deal with now. The far northern locations (byesford, hell tree, FI, agni) are exceptions, but the threat in those locations essentially just boils down to larger numbers of zombies. Like sure its challenging, but its a boring and monotonous challenge. The addition of wolves to the snow was cool and definitely a step in the right direction though.
DocCodeSharp, do us a favor and respond to what Saviour asked you. I think we all deserve an answer to this.
Also, even other staff are now offering ideas of how to fix this, there are so many ideas here that solve the problem in a much better way, read them and don't dismiss them all instantly.
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