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Discussion How To Fix Annihilation

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by Unhinge, Apr 14, 2019.

Discussion - How To Fix Annihilation
  1. Unhinge Platinum

    Hi! I've played too much so I've decided to lay out the many ideas I've had for balancing and improving the game mode into a forum post finally.

    Firstly here are some class suggestions.

    Controversial start I know but I like where scout is to be honest. The only change I would love to see is when you get hit the grapple automatically detaches itself. Scout should be used to scout out the other teams and perform "reconnaissance" really so this allows it to easily avoid fights still but getting away from a close combat fight is difficult.

    One of the best classes for team coordination but some minor quality of life adjustments would be beneficial.
    I feel rift walker is already much stealthier than transporter for rushing so the addition of a sound when a person is rifted to will give enemy's fair warning. Perhaps as more people that rift to that person the louder the sound.

    Also while it is extremely good for coordination, it is subjective to team griefing. With a limit of bringing 3 people, often it is difficult to bring precisely the people you want as other's try to jump in. Some jump in just to troll and take up a slot over people who have better gear,etc. I propose a rifter can select by left clicking with the class item on each person they wish to bring. When a person is selected it would be indicated in their name tag in some form which their entire team can view.

    Changing classes late game (which is when alchemist is heavily used) can be quite risky due to void constantly trying to void. The only real use for alchemist is brewing fast, so it should be good at it too then. Bring back the previous fast brew because if you have to buy multiple brewing stands anyway then alchemist isn't performing well enough in my opinion.

    As for the alchemist's book I feel it should be slightly tweaked. It's a nice touch to get random ingredients but I feel the "useless junk" you get should be removed. Also it's not uncommon to get no items from the book. It should be reworked so it consistently always gives at least one potion ingredient.

    Vampire is quite fair now with the recent update but still very annoying on maps like Cherokee where vamps can fly directly into reach of the nexus and even with defense still get multiple hits as it's so hard to defend against. Vampire should get mining fatigue II for 2 seconds after transforming back into a human. Although brief it'd give a fair chance to kill a vampire who just spawned in your nexus.

    Increase missile's and flame's hit box / range. Right now it's almost impossible to land these spells making them effectively useless.

    I have found dasher has become a very unorthodox class in the spirit of other annihilation classes. The only real use I see for it is running away by teleporting which people often used transporter to do. I believe if dasher's original mechanics came back it would be far more useful and unique. By this I mean the return of the ability to teleport forward by roughly 5 blocks every dash but without the return of the hunger element. Possibly you could dash up to 3-5 times in quick succession but the more you dash the longer the cool down after.

    When a miner put's items in a furnace it should smelt at the same speed as the ender furnace. I'm not fully sure how it could be implemented but alchemist does something similar so I believe it's possible.

    When an enemy is hooked they should receive slowness briefly e.g 1 second of slowness 2

    If you are immobilised should be still able to place and break ( If you can still mine with the mining fatigue ) blocks.
    It's a bit silly you can't even attempt to block yourself off while stunned as you already are unable to fight back in my opinion.

    What ninja really lacks is a passive ability, I suggest it get's permanent speed I and reduced fall damage. Similar to scout but not lost when you wear heavy gear. A ninja should be light on their feet and quite nimble so I feel it would be fitting.

    With prot 16 being meta now it can be very difficult to a singular person no mind a whole group who are so heavily geared. Brute Force is a great way to punish people who hit and run with it but it's realistically only useful as a leather and not when you have better gear. I propose when you are lumberjack that the efficiency enchantment on axes are also counted as sharpness. This would allow it to be quite useful for defending late game.

    Instant Damage Potions
    Also after realising how much damage insta damage pots actually do I think they should be nerfed. In vanilla it's 3 hearts and 6 hearts. Reduce how much damage instant harming potions to 2 and 4 hearts for I and II respectively. Annihilation is about gearing up and while this is a valid tactic it is too powerful in nexuses with bottle neck entrances.

    Next thing that kind of irks me is the rank system. How can there be no rewards for 4 of the ranks especially for grandmaster I which is quite the mile stone.

    Even something simple like shotbow XP would be appreciated but for example novice III could unlock a 4th free class every week. There is also plenty of cosmetics that could be given as rewards but anything would be better than nothing.

    Boss Shop
    plenty of items could be tweaked to be more useful and I feel the boss buff exclusive items are less frequently used than those like the potions which you could potentially make yourself instead.

    Boss Buff Boots
    Their biggest flaw is in how quick they break. They take so much durability and even in scenarios where they shouldn't. For example if you are acrobat, use a launchpad, get scorped or swapped you are immune to fall damage but they still take durability. Remove the durability loss when it save's you from fall damage. The helmet doesn't lose durability when it extinguishes you so I feel it's ok for the boots to be the same.

    Boss Buff Leggings
    Possibly the least useful piece of boss armour in my opinion due to it only giving speed I briefly when hit. I believe speed II would be too powerful of a buff so instead I suggest you receive speed I and saturation / hunger points restored when hit.

    Sword of Flames + Sword of Venom
    These are completely useless currently. Maybe making them iron instead would make them alright.

    Looting 3 Boss Buff Sword
    I'd like to see the addition of a sword with looting 3 to the boss buff shop. Gold sword with no unbreaking would be ideal I think.

    Miscellaneous Things
    Make it so you can do /class name e.g scout but maybe /class SCO would work too? c:

    When a person has every class it should stop giving you weekly kits so it stop's rearranging your classes every week.

    Rework the anti farming mechanic so more kills are counted.

    Fix lag hits as they're really annoying :[

    Turn off the queue system after phase 5 and if the network lags everyone out it should stay disabled for a little while after people can join back.
    Also implement the party system to queue as a group.

    Return the 8v8 or something similar

    Move the message showing the nexus getting mined back to the top. It's really hard to read as it's inside chat and hotbar now.

    Make bow's count as the class items in /pref instead of separate since all the classes which spawn with bows (Arc,rob,sni + acr) don't have class items and it'd be convenient to have them spawn in the same spot but it's not possible right now.

    Fix the nocheatplus so you can stack upwards properly without getting pulled down and teleporting constantly. I still see cheaters scaffolding so it seem's to be only negatively affecting legitimate players.

    Allow players to /dado other players as seeing how much nexus they healed is quite useful ( rather than only being able to see how much damage they've done that game with /stats )

    I believe these changes would greatly add to a smoother and cleaner experience on annihilation (along with bug fixes but I purposefully left out bugs as they're a separate issue). Formatting on the forums is hard and I suck at it so sorry!!

    Thanks for reading, hope something comes out of this as it took way too much work u-u
    Fluffoon, Capt, Hollow_Leg and 10 others like this.

  2. Th1ccN1bba Regular Member

    agree with everything except damage pots nerf and scorp buff

  3. karabear04 Regular Member

    I would love to see a change with dasher
  4. Capt Platinum

    don't touch my scout
    macman18 likes this.
  5. Monster_Bug Platinum

  6. Hvba Builder

    I agree with everything and would like to add 1 thing:
    Remove void scorping by making people only able to scorp if there is ground under them.

    Edit: How did this comment get more likes then my map submissions...................... ._.
    Azaqa, Tobi472, Fluffoon and 4 others like this.
  7. soto Platinum

    - miner is fairly balanced.
    - dasher is at a great spot, the changes you ask for are just your personal preference.
    - immobiliser is at a great spot. it's only overpowered when used properly, which, the same could be said for every class.
    - flame hitbox is fine for wizard, missile is useless, i agree on that.
    - lumberjack is fairly balanced. you won't see a miner at phase 5 with full diamond, why should we see a lumberjack full diamond at phase 5. It serves a good amount of services for the kit it is.

    -though it may have been considered a bug, alchemists fast brewing was a blessing. taking that away from players is stupid. it's a bug that should be shifted into a game mechanic. not a bug-fix.
    - with the new randomised enchanting, and ShotBow's new update nerfing looting swords on witches, it's almost impossible to get looting. I agree with looting III unbreaking X swords in the boss buff as it'll help balancing out the nerf.
    - boss buff boots shouldn't take away so much durability, i definitely agree with that.
  8. Dahiann Platinum

  9. Capt Platinum

    Immo is extremely toxic to the game? Solo rushing is almost impossible due to the kit and sitting and holding right click down isn't very interactive
  10. Claummy Media Creator

    Buena idea sobre la espada de fuego del boss
    Unhinge likes this.
  11. Flautists Platinum

  12. Snurkle Platinum

    Solo rushing can be really hard if some one is defending with any class for that matter. Thats why it is best to rush with more than just yourself as this is a team game. I think the class is perfectly balanced. In my opinion, defense classes should be able to win 1v1s in the nexus area (assuming the gear is the same) as this will encourage players to defend. I have noticed that its hard to get more than one person to defend unless the nexus is about at 0.
  13. Unhinge Platinum


    Miner is extremely useful at any stage of the game , it's just a quality of life improvement I'd appreciate.

    I have tried to be very subjective in this, I have suggested changing several things that would negatively affect my play style because I'd rather see the game succeed. Dasher is boring right now honestly, what happened to the DASHING element? I don't think it's suitable as it's a generic click and teleport class with limited manoeuvrability making it have a minimal skill cap.

    Immobiliser is a top tier class so it's definitely more powerful than many classes without requiring much skill to use effectively. Letting people who are immobilised place/break blocks isn't affecting rushers really but people get mine rushed / jumped at mid. Being unable to fight back is already good enough, in 1.7 you could at least block your sword but now nothing is possible to reduce the impact of immo when you are stunned so I think it's only fair.

    I have used lumberjack while full diamond to defend on a number of occasions (and I've seen others do similar which is where I got the idea from originally) as it's one of the most viable defenses against prot16. Everything has a niche, I often use miner in p5 when I need gold so bad example. Lumberjack is rarely used to get wood, brute force is the reason to use it really and it's not used very much right now so I think it'd be a good change.
  14. Capt Platinum

    The thing is it isn't about winning 1 on 1 the class makes you unable to play the game for a hot min as ur teammates beat you up and I also wouldn't say that the class is "defense class" just because that is what it is primarily used for.
    Unhinge likes this.
  15. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    SCO -- (in response to cutting lines in melee) Making scout feel worse to play is a bad way to nerf. I want scouts to be able to get away from fights, I would be for removing bungee jumping however.

    RIF -- due to the blind jumping of rift walker and the disadvantage in combat resulting from not choosing another class, I think that this class is balanced.

    ALC -- Fast brewing was a bug and not everyone knew about it. Waiting for potions is one of the things you need to do. I don't care about the book, its cool, its useful, its balanced, two thumbs up from M7.

    VAM -- I need to playtest this. Moving on.

    WIZ -- I want the option to not spawn with wizard book. Missile just collides with blocks that are to close to the target, it doesn't feel good to use, and it hits about 1 per 100 shots. Should be removed for review or dropped.

    DAS -- The old dasher could dash through the bedrock at the bottom of the map and thus into the bedrock casing under Andorra 3.9.2. It completely negated walls and had a very short cooldown. Players often would dash into the ground and dig a single block to escape, several dashers I saw would dash into the ground like this and then log out.

    MIN -- Faster smelting for base dwellers? Sure why not. The Civilian Class, Miner Class and the Lumberjack passive should be all rolled into one. This would make starting the game easier for new players and it would be a central point of which to build off of.

    SCO -- (in response to 1 second of slowness on hook.) Negligible, but interesting.

    IMM -- (in response being helpless while immobilized.) You don't need to place blocks, place water. Most right click item functions work while immobilized. This includes but isn't limited to potions, water buckets, food, Gapples and charging bow.

    NIN -- I think small jumps and parkour like what MTA implemented would be a good way to give Ninja a unique feel.

    LUM -- Mark 16 isnt the meta, that was back when enchanting was 30 level 3 level cost. I'd guess that most players that actually engage in pvp are using under Mark 8. That being said, lumberjack breaking armor is some of the least inspired things in the roster. It can be spammed to degear an enemy team and make constant defending more frustrating. It needs some sort of rework to make it attractive, but not make gear stacked players flee for their lives like they just encountered Death itself.


    Damage potions -- If the maps have flawed bottlenecks, then fix the bottlenecks. I think damage potions should be rolled into a class, rather than be standalone. Maybe with more throw velocity.
    Ranks -- Possibly unrelated idea. Add an option to pay for a game to be all classes unlocked, and add a broadcast associated with it.
    Boss Buff Items -- All boss buff armor breaks to fast, even with mending and unbreaking. Something needs to buff them.
    Helmet: is perfect sacrifices nearly no armor and gives immunity to fire. Add resistance when on Pyro.
    Chestplate: takes so much armor away that it isn't worth the downgrade from diamond, even for the regeneration. Add Armor when on Defender.
    Leggings: Speed is a secondary stat, and you need to be hit before it activates, horrible, something to boost hunger or saturation would be interesting.
    Boots: The negation of all fall damage while notable, is undesirable on quite a few maps on top of breaking easily. I propose Depth Strider II be added. Add Jump boost when on Acrobat.
    Sword of Venom, Sword of Flames -- Replace with books with these enchantments, only make available in phase 5.
    Sword of Looting -- +1
    More things labeled as class items -- +1
    Command for picking class -- +1
    Free weekly classes toggle -- +1
    Ivandagiant likes this.
  16. soto Platinum

    so imagine we do implement unhinge's suggestion. How will that benefit you and solo-rushing. Placing blocks is impossible within nexus range.

    I use lumberjack with the sole purpose to cutting down exterior objects or getting wood. Like you said, it all depends on one's subjective playstyle. For all I care they should let the brute force be applied onto the swords to fix any moral issues. You keep your sharpness & deal heavy exterior damage. But that suggestion isn't an issue ShotBow will have to worry about.

    I agree with the idea that I preferred Dasher when you could just have that 5 block leap rather than shifting teleportation but changes come with a specific reason, some of which could be considered game-breaking.

    Immo requires cooperation from the team. It's not a solo-based kit. Nothing should be altered, it's a great kit as it is.

    According to your subjectiveness. If lumberjack has the ability to have an offensive kit added to it's double block mining, why shouldn't miner have an extra ability then? What about repairing your teammates armor instead of having a Gold Rush ability many rarely ever use. This is a stupid suggestion but it leaves open the following criterium of pointless interference revolving subjective personal bias.
  17. Unhinge Platinum

    Depends on your play style but the meta is the meta and that is defined by the play style of the top tier players. Lumberjack is already an offensive class by nature with it's primary ability Brute Force, miner's primary ability has nothing to do with combat. There is already a system to repair armour. If brute force worked with swords that would be fine but changes should reflect the spirit of the class in my opinion.

    Dasher doesn't necessarily need to go through blocks if it's really an issue although it was a great aspect of the class.

    Immo requires cooperation sure? Still doesn't mean you should be punished so severely for an unavoidable ability.
  18. Hollow_Leg Gold

    I won't go to this
    Unhinge likes this.
  19. Snurkle Platinum

    Ok, I am a bit confused. I couldn't understand what you were saying that well because of they way you typed it (Grammer). Let me make sure I got that right. You are saying that you can't attack people for an entire minute when immobilized? On top of that, your teammates will "beat you up" because you got immobilized. Do you mean being made fun of in chat (because your teammate cannot attack you in game). You also mentioned that immobilizer is not a defense class just because people use it for defense. If that is what you meant, then here are my points.

    1. The immobilizer ability is not that long. I believe its like 5-10 seconds. Check MysteriousSevens Annihilation quick reference as it probably contains the exact length. DM me if you want the link.

    2. I personally don't let others who make fun of my skills in annihilation determine how I choose to play. I get criticized all the time for using sniper, but the best thing I can advise is to ignore them.

    3. A large portion of the Annihilation players use the class for defensive purposes. That is a good indication that it makes for a great defense class. While it is also used as an offensive class, I still think it is a valid class for defense.
  20. Capt Platinum

    I never said that I agree with him did I?

    My idea on how to fix the class would be to add a beam or something that the immo has to hit when you right click and then put the class on cd (similar to how scorp works) the person playing the class would have to land a skill shot of some sort rather than just sitting half afk holding right click
    Unhinge likes this.

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