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Discussion Annihilation Class Update Tierlist

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by GuigaWei, Jan 27, 2018.

Discussion - Annihilation Class Update Tierlist
  1. GuigaWei Platinum

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    578,041xp
    It's once again time for another Tierlist! Two updates and 6 months have passed by since the last one, and many changes have been made to the game.

    As always, this is a discussion thread, and I will try to answer any and all questions that are posted here or on the YouTube video page.

    This video is very long, and there is no real way to include a TL: DR due to the nature of the content. I have attempted to alleviate this problem by having shortcuts for each class in the description of the video on YouTube.

    Before we begin, I would like to thank LegendaryAlex for appearing in the video and for helping me plan and place the classes prior to recording. He couldn't finish the entire video with us, but be sure to send love his way as he was a big help.

    Finally, I would like to also thank Murgatron for taking a large chunk of time to be in the video and give lengthy design philosophy and explanations regarding changes and class placement. Hopefully, this helps give people more perspective on the circumstances surrounding design of Annihilation. Disclaimer: His opinion doesn't reflect the opinion of the entire staff as a whole. Some staff members might disagree with the views he expresses in the video, and some may agree.

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    Video Tierlist:




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    Text Tierlist:

    SS: empty
    S+: Enchanter / Scout
    S : Acrobat / Archer / Dasher / Immobilizer / Pyro
    A+: Alchemist / Assassin / Miner / Robin Hood / Scorpio / Sniper / Thor / Wizard
    A : Berserker / Bloodmage / Builder / Defender / Farmer / Iceman / Healer / Succubus / Tinkerer / Transporter / Warrior
    B+: Handyman / Mercenary / Ninja / Rift Walker / Spy / Swapper / Vampire
    B : Bard / Engineer / Hunter / Lumberjack / Spider
    C : empty
    D : Civilian

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    Tierlist Legend:


    SS: God-Tier classes that have the innate ability to be placed into any situation, on any team, and end the game alone. Only a few classes have ever reached SS.
    S+: Top-level classes that thrive in a majority of relevant situations and affect the game greatly. Generally considered the top-picked classes and often force opponents to pick their classes in a way to counter S+ level kits.
    S: Above the point of balance. Proficient at high-level performance in their respective roles. Influences game strategy a fair amount and generally provide more perks than others below it.
    A+: Slightly above the point of balance. Provides alternative strategies that may work better than S Tier classes in some situations with noticeable drawbacks generally speaking.
    A: The focal point of balance. New players should flock to this tier, given that there should be little to no changes to the play-style. Has the potential to be powerful under the grip of experienced players.
    B+: Slightly under the point of balance. Requires more planning and precision to be successful using these kits. Overall potential takes a hit when moving down to B+ and beyond.
    B: Below the point of balance and doesn't change the gameplay of a match all that much. Functional in some situations, but more unreliable and risky, given that there are generally better picks and alternatives.
    C: Low-level classes that are weak overall. Teams of players would have to build a strategy around these classes for them to be able to function. No viability except if a player is considered a master of the class.
    D: Non-viable classes that cannot be used in any situation and do not provide any incentive to choose over any other kit. Only a few classes have ever stooped to D.

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    Thanks for reading and watching! Hope this was insightful and eye opening for many people. Feel free to leave you questions below.

  2. ment0l66 Emerald

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    549,805xp
    Uhm yeah, I don't think anyone is gonna watch that video, rather play a game of Annihilation :stuck_out_tongue:

    One hell of a post though. On first sight, I find myself agreeing with almost all of them and the ones I don't agree with I do not necessarily disagree with because I've never used them, so I can't judge.

    EDIT 1: Actually, I think berserker is up one to high. Imho it should be in the B+ category because it takes a lot of planning and does have a severe impact on how you play the game (When you have 7 hearts you don't go for situations where you would have gone for if you had 10 hearts).

    EDIT 2: I want to add something to the Builder part. You never mentioned Engineer's TNT as its primary enemy. You talked about classes like Acrobat and Assassin being able to easily circumvent the wall, but you can build walls to prevent that. The only way to prevent Engineer from blowing up your wall is by flooding it from the get-go and even that can be circumvented by going underground with the Engineer kit or just boxing the TNT in with wood so it's not in the water when exploding. Also, Obsidian can be brought back into the game with the limitation that it can only be obtained from Builder's drop when the game is in phase 4 or higher, just like Blaze Powder can only be bought when the game is in Phase 3 or higher.

    EDIT 3: I really like the idea of the iron pickaxe on civilian. Apart from the benefits you have pointed out it will also make iron mines less crowded early game, because people can buy their gear from the shop instead of having to mine and smelt it. Maybe also give it a pair of shears, to give the class a natural way to counter swapper traps (most people make their traps out of wool because most people forget to bring shears. If there is a class that naturally has them maybe more people will use it).

    EDIT 4: Engineer will most likely only be used to annoy enemies by constantly blowing up their walls, which means leather guys going in (underground) and just trying to dismantle the wall as much as possible. Because of being able to go underground I honestly think it should be placed one up in the rankings.
  3. LegendaryAlex Platinum

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    449,178xp
    Sorry for the weird high sound through the video.
    _Swipe likes this.
  4. GuigaWei Platinum

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    578,041xp
    There is a link embedded in the word "YouTube" when I address the length. The video is long, but if you wanted to see certain classes discussed, you can go there by looking in the description of the video on YouTube.

    Berserker has strong presence late-game if you can handle killing enemies with a bow early, then slowly making it to 20 hearts using melee attacks. There is a lot of room for strategy when it comes to Berserker, and with its tankiness late-game, it can be used at mid in some situations as opposed to some kits in B+.
  5. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    XP:
    227,394xp
    I often mid rush as Civilian over Miner out of preference.

    EDIT: The actual term for how balance relates to games is called Power Curve, as opposed to Point of Balance
    For example: Scout is above the power curve, while Iceman is on the power curve.
    *sneeze*
  6. ment0l66 Emerald

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    549,805xp
    Yes, but you will miss out on other functionalities that other classes can provide when you choose to go Berserker early game to gain hearts. You will have to miss out on things like the XP multiplier from Enchanter, the added mobility that Scout / Acrobat provides if you want to maintain the health boost you have.

    I will/might keep updating my first post as I get further into the video, I'm listening to the entire thing now.
    Diamond_Hunter49 likes this.
  7. hiddenbun Retired Staff

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    ha nerd
    MrNomNom111 likes this.
  8. Litnetti Emerald

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    129,775xp
    good post high quality post
    +1 upvote
    _Swipe likes this.
  9. Ivandagiant Silver

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    38,537xp
    Question, why is warrior ranked the same as bloodmage when bloodmage has arguably the highest damage in the game? A leather bloodmage can jump into an enemy team's midbase and do loads of damage with the AOE ability, and if you focus an iron opponent you can usually take them down to 2 hearts or even kill them if you are good. Warrior only has single target damage that is reduced by armor. I don't see them being on the same tier at all. I would either move bloodmage up one or warrior down.
  10. GuigaWei Platinum

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    578,041xp
    Warrior is comparable to Bloodmage, but rather is more early-game focused. It has more reliable damage early, where you can deal +1 or +2 in mine invasions or in 1-on-1 pvp fights. It has the potential for diamond sword damage early which allows you to outbox every opponent except Pyro. Furthermore, +1 and +2 are equal to 2 sharpness tiers in the late game since Sharp II-V is equal to +0.5 damage.
    ACringyTortilla likes this.
  11. jinl3e Platinum

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    Nic3 job spending your time on this.
    One thing i'm confused, is this a tier list for the classes in general? Or PvP?
    Depending on the definition I would Wizard and Beserker, I just like besereker too much :wink:
  12. GuigaWei Platinum

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    578,041xp
    The class system isn't based on PvP. Instead it is based on increasing your chances for success in the specific roles each class is most viable in. Immobilizer currently maxes your chances for success at defense just like how Scout maximizes your chances for success at PvP.

    Wizard and Berserker are both fine classes, but I wouldn't consider them top of the list in terms of maximizing PvP capabilities. In fact, Wizard would not be A+ if it wasn't for its mining fatigue being used for defense. Berserker is perfectly balanced as far as PvP goes and works well with most popular strategies in the current Annihilation. Both have the potential for great successes if they are played correctly; Berserker works well on players with good enchantments on their gear, and Wizard halts any rush for 7 full seconds allowing for easy defense.
  13. Hingey Platinum

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    860,967xp
    Spider clearly needs a buff...
  14. Hingey Platinum

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    But if they disagree are they even considered staff anymore?
    _Swipe likes this.
  15. Diamond_Hunter49 Gold

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    I didn't watch the whole thing simply because of the length, but (from what I did watch) it was very well thought out with good reasons backing up the placement of each class! Great work and thank you to everyone who was involved in this. :)
  16. GuigaWei Platinum

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    578,041xp
    Yes.
  17. GuigaWei Platinum

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    Thanks, means a lot! You could always listen to it in the background while playing a game, just a tip. Also there are timestamps in the desc of the YT video for each class (in case you wanted to hear reasoning behind a select few).
    Diamond_Hunter49 likes this.
  18. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

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    While I don't discount number crunching, I have to agree with Ivan on this one, Bloodmage is better than Warrior. If that gap is big enough to justify moving it to a different grade is yet to be determined. Maybe any class that increases damage is just going to be that more advantageous compared to other classes. Also, its worth restating, that this is a scaling of the classes, not a ranking of one. I don't know anyone who would want to put in the next 30 hours making this a complete ranking system.
    Ivandagiant likes this.
  19. GuigaWei Platinum

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    He does bring up another point that I don't know if I made clear 100%. Being in the same tier as another class means that they can be compared and contrasted with similar output results. Warrior has the potential to be successful in the current state of the game just like Bloodmage. If this was a ranking, then I probably would rate Bloodmage higher than Warrior simply because of damage. The comparison is that Warrior doesn't rely on cooldown based abilities to be successful and provides a more reliable DPS. Both are viable.

    The problem is that if I move Bloodmage up, then I have to compare it to Thor's current state, where the ability is easy to proc, the kit has Resistance, and it has early-game control with KB 2. Also, saying that Bloodmage is almost equal to the strength of the bow classes in this ranged-heavy meta is basically lying. And don't get me started on Mining Fatigue Wizard...

    The same goes for Warrior, if I compared it to Mercenary and its lower damage output as well as its situation-heavy uses I'd also be lying. Trust me, if there was an A- Tier then I would place Warrior there in a heartbeat, but unfortunately this is a rare case where a class falls in between. No other class would be able to supplement any reasoning for creating an A- Tier just for Warrior either, so it really is just up to preference. A or B+, take your pick.
  20. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

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    227,394xp
    [IMG]
    Troll everyone. Do it anyways.

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