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Suggestion An important post about Anni

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by Maashg, Feb 4, 2018.

Suggestion - An important post about Anni
  1. Maashg Platinum

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    1,439,347xp
    Bows are EXTREMLY op. It is really annoying. It makes game is unplayable. I am saying that as an old Anni player (playing since 2014).

    Also server really MUST be 1.12. Because 1.9 is really buggy and really damaged Anni. PvP can be much much better with 1.12.

    Please nerf bows before nerfing Scout.

    Last game a person shot me and i lost 7 HEARTS + flame = 1.5 heart left. So do you really think this is fun? I hope you listen us and nerf bows. Thanks for reading.
    Ivandagiant and jobvk03 like this.

  2. ment0l66 Emerald

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    575,309xp
    Removed this, check my more detailed post a few posts down.
  3. uwuGHG Platinum

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    46,129xp
    I agree. While the bows can be a really good weapon, you can also pretty easily counter them. Place 2-3 blocks in front of you, and you are save. You can also dodge the arrows. The high damage isn't as easy to get, it takes time and also the right enchantment for Power V and Flame I. So in my opinion it's justified.
    ___Mika___ and Nikogab22 like this.
  4. dackknight09 Obsidian

    XP:
    105,709xp
    Love how you say this post is very important. Please give it a little bit of depth instead of giving a random example of an event that happened to you like 15 minutes ago. This makes it seems it was made out of rage more than it was made because it is unbalanced and needs a fix.
  5. GuigaWei Platinum

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    578,041xp
    I can agree with the bow meta being too heavy right now. Zoning is a huge tool for controlling diamonds, and it makes for a snowball heavy game whenever one team has control, and can easily zone out the rest with easy-to-access high power ranged damage. Robin Hood and Archer have two things in common - high burst damage and high sustain with little farm required to reach it. +1 Bow damage is equivalent to +50% or Power I in normal minecraft values. This means that the very first level of enchanting supersedes the rest. It allows for teams to remain relevant even when their teammates are under-geared. This is how teams with more players can sustain mid - because their players don't need gear to keep their player count relevant throughout the game.

    I'm working on suggestions for later, but for now I'll agree that the ranged mid meta is almost to the point of out-of-control. I don't think that bows need a late-game nerf, the problem for sure is that bow classes can get away with being out of position, and still deal tons of damage early. Perhaps artificially lowering the damage increase for Archer down to +0.5 to match the +25% power scaling that comes when jumping from Power I to II and so on, then removing the Punch enchantment from any early-game situation to prevent ranged classes from being too safe. This would mean making Punch harder for Robin Hood to reach, perhaps by placing it at a later tier.

    I'd have to disagree with version remastering, there isn't much lag on my end at all, and moving to 1.12 could contribute to a mini-1.9 disaster where games can't get updated until the version is updated.

    Scout and other mobility classes are still a problem as well. Remember that your team player count doesn't matter if your players are under-geared. Scout and friends assures that everyone using those kits have a huge chance of keeping gear and a larger chance of winning. However, the mobility classes shouldn't be outright nerfed, instead the game needs some number changes and quality of life changes to encourage farming and shift the superior strategy away from sustain and ranged poke. The only nerfs in regards to mobility classes should be to remove the unfair aspects, and focusing on fun from there on.
    Ivandagiant and _Swipe like this.
  6. PaySafeKaart Platinum

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    92,093xp
    Its pretty hard sometimes to get a bow like that and the player (Who shot you) probarly grinded for it so let it in the value so it is honest to everyone else.
  7. Snurkle Platinum

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    105,131xp
    I agree that bows are REALLY powerful, but to add onto manea's reply: try focusing on what can be done to counter bows rather than just requesting that it be nerfed. Here are some things to do that might help you out....

    - Use bows to counter other people who use bows
    - Use assassin and leap behind bow spammers \ regular bow users (in certain situations)
    - Avoid them all together
    - Make walls to prevent them from shooting your location (usually at mid)
    - If playing with friends, rush the bow user together

    If you need more suggestions let me know.

    As for the game being "unplayable": I played it recently and it didnt seem that way at all nor did my friend either. Its been a good while since ive seen anyone claim the game is unplayable due to bow usage. I think that statement is a bit eggagerated.

    I hope you read your replys and take note of them. No point of posting otherwise.
    -Snurkle
  8. LegendaryAlex Platinum

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    449,178xp
    But as you noticed, it gave the people something interesting to talk about which is important for a thread. :wink: Saying something random like this will sometimes also grant you something beautiful called a "discussion." When what the person says doesn't make sense, yeah people will question the thread and ignore or say something passive aggressive/satirical but bows are clearly are being used A LOT these days so this makes sense.
  9. drewko09 Platinum

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    216,380xp
    Yea anybody with a brain can abuse the enchant system now to consistently get a god bow. I dont think the problem is bows themselves i thnk its how easy enchanting is. Would like to see an enchanter nerf or some change to enchanting system.
  10. schottler3 Regular Member

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    35,320xp
    I like the enchanting system as it is.
    People with bows can spam if they want, it's their loss of the durability, arrows(if there's no infinity), and time being dumb.
    If you're in any gear it can be annoying to get hit with a 4 heart dealt bow, but as a old player of annihilation... me myself have made OP bows to kill many weakened or people running from battle.
    Bows are a strategy and should not be needed at all.
  11. ment0l66 Emerald

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    575,309xp
    You do not need to "abuse" the enchanting system to get a good bow, the default enchantment on any map is power 4 & punch which is quite good, but unbreaking (and possibly flame) can be a useful thing to have as well, which could be obtained by enchanting another bow at level 30 and then using an anvil.

    So, to be able to get a "god" bow, you'd need to enchant at least 2 bows, that's mining to level 30, at least twice. That's at least about 2 stacks of ores for someone with enchanter, at least about 4 stacks (I presume, never mined to level 30 without enchanter) for someone without. That's a lot of time spend in the mine in which you could get killed by people attacking said mine. In my honest opinion, the time you invested in getting that good bow should be rewarded by actually being able to kill people pretty quickly, that's where you did it for in the first place.

    As stated above, "bowspamming" can easily be avoided by placing blocks to prevent the arrows from hitting you. You can also (try to) dodge the arrows, depending on how far the person with a bow is removed from your position.

    There is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with the current situation of bows.

    Source for the default enchantment (second page): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xVAM-RNbpaL0tWBdL7fRBy0S2uNOi4PVJWvsu_u0mPQ/edit?usp=sharing
  12. Ivandagiant Silver

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    38,537xp
    Are you serious? Bows were no where near as prevalent as they are now. Something changed. And it's not good.
    noahvr and LegendaryAlex like this.
  13. hiddenbun Retired Staff

    XP:
    569xp
    I agree with you... but only kind of. For example, remember that the enchanter class also has a decent chance of upgrading any effect, and when it comes to bows, Power IVs to Power Vs are not uncommon on the first enchant (at which point it's basically a 'god' bow). Combine that bow with a Pyro for flame, or Sniper for pin-point accuracy, or Archer for upgraded attack damage (Power V equivalent to a Power VII with Archer), and you have, in my eyes, an issue. There is also the fact that even Power IV is very strong by itself, and Shotbow's melee/latency issues. Most people looking for the kind of "GOD" bow you're talking about would simply use Robin Hood and get it by shooting people.

    Now, this isn't that much of a problem in close-quarter fights, but the dilemma shows itself in crowded games on main-stream maps. I'm sure many of you have seen how every Coastal game with an acceptable number of players becomes a straight shoot-out at mid, and like Guiga said it's very, very easy to maintain mid control with bows of any type. Melee nowadays isn't as rewarding nor useful; swords are used as back-ups to bows in almost all late-game fights, and getting up close and personal with the enemy in skirmishes has become secondary to bowspamming.

    There's always been bowspamming and powerful bows, however the current state of the Minecraft client (nerfed strength, sharpness, and protection), Annihilation, and Shotbow's server latency sets bows at what I see to be a noticeably greater advantage than before.

    It isn't game-breaking, it isn't extremely OP, but it also isn't nothing, in fact, in my view it's actually quite significant. I don't know if nor how much Shotbow has retooled the sharpness and protection values changed in the 1.9 update to emulate pre-1.9 PvP, but there is something to that. Swords do less damage, bows still do as much damage as they used to, so in my opinion changes must be made to restore balance to the force... right?

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But for real, no, now that I think about it, I can def-initely say with full confidence that there is WAY more bow action going on and way less sword action than before 1.9. Yeah, they can still be countered, however most of the time it's with using a bow yourself that you are going to find the most success against any archers. And you can see all of this in-game, all the time.
    Ivandagiant and LegendaryAlex like this.
  14. ment0l66 Emerald

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    575,309xp

    I think the underlying issue here is that people do want diamonds, but are not willing to properly defend themselves. Quite often I find myself to be the only one working on a decent mid base and nobody even shows up to help until halfway through phase 4. Bows can be quite easily avoided by building a tube from your mid base to mid (can depend on what map you're playing), but this isn't that easy a task to accomplish when you're the only one working on it, especially with enemies around. At the beginning of phase 3, people will just show up at mid trying to get diamonds and find themselves with nothing to work with but instead of building something that could actually defend them from the onslaught of arrows they go straight to middle, where there is no place to hide.
  15. hiddenbun Retired Staff

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    569xp
    I mean... sort of? Bowspam is a great counter to kill the shit out of people in tunnels, I can assure you, and making a mid tunnel doesn't take longer than two minutes with an iron pick on your own, so there's that. People build defenses all the time; but in Coastal (which I assume your example was directed towards), an Iceman with a power III+ bow can basically still shoot anybody and run away with no problem. I don't really see what you're tryna say; even with elaborate defenses people will still bowspam people when rushing in because it's the best way to kill somebody with minimum skill required and minimal risk to yourself (this is undeniably true). Can you expand on what you're tryna say some more? I'm not really understanding, sorreh

    Maybe you and I are seein' different things, but I've been playing quite a lot recently and that's what I've noticed. idk.

    PS. I also edited some stuff in my post, if you'd like to read that >.<
    LegendaryAlex likes this.
  16. ment0l66 Emerald

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    575,309xp
    So as promised, here I am with the response. If things still don't make sense feel free to point them out to me and I'll gladly (try to) explain them even further.

    First and foremost, I never stated once that people use the bow less than they used to do prior to 1.9 and neither will I do now, because while I did play when the game first got released I took a huge break and only got back "recently", so I have no idea how it used to be before I did return. Neither do I know if the developers decided to change the amount of damage a bow does because, as I said, I haven't been here for a while, so I have no clue.

    The way bows are now makes mid a place with high risk, high rewards. You could easily die while trying to obtain diamonds which, in my opinion, is a good thing because they're one of the most valuable items in the game, you shouldn't be able to "just" get them. I am someone who loves to use bows and I am aware of how much damage they can do but as I mentioned earlier, bows can easily be avoided by various methods or the effect bows have on you can be mitigated. For instance, if you are troubled by the flame effect, use Pyro or take a water bucket with you. You could also take blocks with you to build, as to prevent people from hitting you altogether.

    The statement "people build defenses all the time" is partially true. While I do agree that more often than not people do build something, I've played countless game where people didn't build a mid-base (or a normal base for that matter) and the team ended up having to use the default stone island as an improvised base while it isn't that hard or time-consuming to build a decent base that will save you from bows. Also, using a bow can require quite a lot of skill, depending on the situation. You indeed do minimize the risk to yourself by (trying to) bow people from a long range but it isn't always that easy to hit your shot. As for spamming your bow on a close range (<10 blocks), yes that is definitely annoying, which is why I myself don't do it. This is also the only thing I consider "bowspamming".

    To elaborate on the tube I mentioned earlier (yes the map I had in mind while typing that was coastal), a favorite design of mine that I try to make whenever I find myself at mid without a mid-base (but don't exceed in quite often, partially because of enemies, partially because teammates have other plans) is this. Someone from mid will not be able to spam into it and will have to come up close and personal to be able to kill you. On other maps, variations of this could be used. Canyon, for example, could be defended with only the "road-block" so people still won't be able to shoot straight into your mid-base. Of course, this can't be done on every map and there will have to be found solutions to that by the people who play a game on those maps, but this is just to show that there are definitely things that can be done to prevent people from rampaging your mid-base from afar.

    To be clear, I wouldn't mind if bows got nerfed (okay, maybe a little) and I would probably still use them, but people seem to be making more fuss about it than necesarry because there are definitely things you do to protect yourself from them.
  17. hiddenbun Retired Staff

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    569xp
    Yeah man, I never meant to imply that you were saying bows were used less, just sayin' what I see. No worries mate!
    For sure, trust me I understand all the counters, I do them all, I get it. Bows ARE dope, I should make that clear, and I love them to death, because they DO require a lot of skill for those snipes and there's not many things better than hearing that "ping" when you've dogged someone from 50 blocks away. That's not my point though, I spend the first 5 minutes of every solo game making a power IV-V bow for myself! My point is that even with the counters, bows are hella busted. I just finished a Canyon game, and it was a bow-fest; all bows and barely any sword action. No deep head-on rushes into enemy mid bases, no courageous and amazing displays of skill in one man winning a fight when outnumbered, just arrows flying everywhere. But it wasn't just at mid, it was everywhere: defense, offense, chasing guys, running away from guys, everything. That, to me, is a lot less fun than dueling somebody and winning honestly. No one even tries to get close to each other, or when they do, they fight for a second then bowspam you back and run away (to do the same thing to another player). There's no fun in that! Even when I'm racking in kills with my own bow, it feels dirty; this player could be a better PvPer, have better gear, and use a situationally-better class but still die near-instantly because I was able to shoot him twice, first. Catch my drift?
    Okay, when I said "people build defenses all the time," I didn't mean it literally; that phrase was sposed to point to my view that defenses don't even help that much when bowspammers can stand right outside shootin, you dig? And yeah man, my beef isn't with the long range, that's what bows are for, and what I love. It's the close range bow-shoot dancing that gets me annoyed (I consider myself not half-bad at it, and tend to win in a 1v1 like that, but it's just lame). Yeah, you and I are against the same thing, and it's everywhere, every game, every open space ever.
    Exactly, there are! But there are definitely fewer things to prevent people from rampaging your mid-base from medium-close range, and that's where the problem (in my eyes) lies.

    It's easier to explain when you're in-game and you see it happening right in front of you, and can point out exactly what frustrates you and why it does, but I tried my best to show that in this post. Let's play sometime, and I'll show you! :D
  18. ment0l66 Emerald

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    575,309xp

    Ok, gotta admit, I just played a game against a sniper who did this and it is so ridiculous it's not even funny.
    _Swipe likes this.
  19. hiddenbun Retired Staff

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    569xp
    im not gonna say i told u so but ;smirk:
    Unicycle43 and Manaea like this.
  20. Ivandagiant Silver

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    38,537xp
    Yea, if you actually invest some time into sniper you can easily shut down a team or 2 from mid. Creating a tower in the middle of mid with only slabs to shoot out of will render you nearly impossible to hit with other arrows. If you REALLY want to have fun, flood the area around you. This usually takes a team to do but if you can pull it off NOBODY will get near you since sniper arrows don't slow down in water.

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