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Discussion Annihilation Class Teirlist

Discussion in 'Annihilation' started by Mysterious_Seven, May 22, 2019.

Discussion - Annihilation Class Teirlist | Page 3
  1. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    XP:
    227,414xp
    I would like to point out how old acrobat is and how many people actually have it. If you're going to grasp at straws because of information I give you, you're going to fall into every logic trap I have.

  2. jinl3e Platinum

    XP:
    49,036xp
    yeah but it was ironic because of our stupid fight we had. Question though, by class picked do you mean like the most frequent purchases or the most frequent class that gets played? There should be a way to measure the amount of times each class is played and we can use it as a piece of evidence to prove why they are picked often.
  3. Tobi472 Platinum

    XP:
    1,650,597xp
    Cringe which year we have lmao
  4. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    XP:
    227,414xp
    It was an old post that I can no longer find, but if memory serves, it was every time in game someone clicked on the class icon. Misclicks and immediate changes to other classes included. Miner likely got inflated even more because of people forgetting to pick Miner in the lobby and as such have to use the portal.
    On the forum where I found that picture the person who posted also said there would be no more information regarding it, much to my dismay.

    It's also old data, Mar to April of last year which means that the April Patch the Major Combat Update and the Priority Queue wouldn't have been released yet. On an unrelated note, the AQR would still be on Version 1, with Version 2 slated for a month after this. Had I had more of this data back then I'd have used it.
  5. JeTi_Brothers Platinum

    XP:
    215,738xp
    My bad, What I was trying to say is that I find assassin one of the best classes out there, as long as you know how to use it. I agree that acrobat isn't that great. I don't consider dasher to be a good class though, then again I might need to start playing more to form a good judgement about most classes.
  6. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    XP:
    227,414xp
    Acrobat and assassin became unstable with the release of the combat patch. Since knock-back and velocity changers are a bit buggy these classes have been knocked down a few pegs. Dasher on the other hand doesn't use velocity and had all of its debuffs removed in favor of a 10 second cooldown. It also still gives food back after killing enemies, as well as having bread. So really it's less of an opinion and more just objective reality. All things working as intended, I'd say Acrobat and Dasher are about the same and assassin is below both by a at least a tier.

    This is why I'm gaging everything on the meta now, it provides much more useful information. Ranking all the classes in a vacuum doesn't work. Took me about an hour total to modify Guigas template to fit my needs as well as ranking every class.
  7. soto Platinum

    XP:
    1,536,055xp
  8. Tobi472 Platinum

    XP:
    1,650,597xp
    The thing about assasin. Cooldown too long but by far the coolest avtive from all mobility classes. And rn if u attack someone while invis u dont get ur armor back only after u got hit. Meaning in any engage u take u have to wait to loose speed and invis u may loose half of ur hp in one hit! I think its a bug but I really wanna see some buffs for this class bc it was my fave one for a long timr
  9. Mysterious_Seven Platinum

    XP:
    227,414xp
    If you have large enough lapses in judgement to think that civilian is better than hunter you've got another thing coming.
  10. soto Platinum

    XP:
    1,536,055xp

    civilian is more used in this update than hunter, prove me wrong.
  11. Tobi472 Platinum

    XP:
    1,650,597xp
    You have no point there. Civs only use is breaking mid blocks. After the first 5 minutes his power drops to the worst class. Hunter can always be used and the traps can have an impact.
  12. soto Platinum

    XP:
    1,536,055xp

    civilian > hunter. i'd rather have a portable crafting bench and stone tools than try to set-up half-functioning traps
  13. Tobi472 Platinum

    XP:
    1,650,597xp
    than u cant be helpded :stuck_out_tongue:
  14. soto Platinum

    XP:
    1,536,055xp

    If you can ever prove me in-game, in what sense hunter excels when it comes to general game-advantage, i'll happily spectate and see for myself.
  15. jinl3e Platinum

    XP:
    49,036xp
    Civilian belongs with hunter or even less on the list. Carrying around a portable crafting bench... seriously. There are billions of crafting benches out in the map including benches u can make that take 2 seconds. Mine a piece of wood and that's a bench. It's not really possible to be a "one trick" civilian. Hunter though is pretty trash compared to other classes but if you use him correctly he can be "good" for the team or yourself but there would be no point in choosing hunter because there are way better classes.
    TLDR: Both need buffs
    soto likes this.
  16. soto Platinum

    XP:
    1,536,055xp
    guess that's a pretty good conclusion to our argument @tobi.
  17. jinl3e Platinum

    XP:
    49,036xp
    Ok due to discussion I've changed my tier list.
    S+: Enchanter, Scout
    S: Pyro, Acrobat, Alchemist, Immobilizer, Dasher, Thor
    A+:Transporter, Spy, Berserker, Farmer, Miner
    A: Archer, Riftwalker, Assassin, Vampire, Mercenary, Succubus, Handyman
    B+: Iceman, Healer, Scorpio, Bloodmage, builder, Defender, Tinkerer
    B: Warrior, Swapper, Wizard, Bard, Sniper, Ninja
    C: Robinhood, Engineer, Lumberjack, Spider
    D: Civilian, Hunter

    But the point of the tier list is to analyze what classes are over powered and what classes are too weak. Here are some suggestions for some of the classes. I'm bored so why not:
    • Scout: Remove speed and grapple cooldown increased to 5-7 seconds or just remove/rework
    • Enchanter: Reduce the amount of extra xp earned
    • Alchemist: Remove regen III
    • Dasher: Reduce the maximum amount of blocks you can dash. This will be controversial but take fall dmg if you are dashing down.
    • Acrobat: Instead of no fall dmg, it should block either a percentage or a flat amount of damage.
    • Pyro: Reduce chance of putting someone on fire with attacks. Add a chance of fire on bows instead of it being 100% fire.
    • Beserker: Reduce the amount of hearts gained with a bow kill. (You can easily spam your bow to get to 30 health)
    • Scorpio: Can only scorp on ground, add a slowness I to the target for a second that's been scorped or give wielder speed I for a second.
    • Ninja: Increase damage if shurks. Right now they just feel like the same dmg of a punch. Add silent steps
    • Iceman: +1 dmg to slowed targets for a little buff to iceman.
    • Warrior: Rework the ability (Frenzy). Pretty useless unless you have someone like a immobilizer
    • Bard: Increase range of the music, increase duration of the effects
    • Robin Hood: Get rid of the weakness and reduce the amount of kills it takes to upgrade the bow. Or just rework the kit I like the idea of a shotbow on this guy.
    • Handyman: Max nexus points should be 100. Change the chance of getting nexus health to.
    Phase 2: 35% --> 35%
    Phase 3: 25% --> 25%
    Phase 4: 15% --> 20%
    Phase 5: 10% --> 15% I feel like we should encourage more people take handyman later game when the nexus bleeds start. Also there should be an extra passive for when your nexus is down. Maybe +Haste I
    • Spider: Ability to walk through webs or have speed I in webs. Idk about other buffs for this dude
    • Engineer: Change name to something else and maybe add a passive since he is useless if he isnt bombing walls and sometimes there aren't any walls
    • Hunter: Make traps bigger, better or just rework his kit.
    • Civilian: Add something that goes along with their portable crafting thingy.
  18. Tobi472 Platinum

    XP:
    1,650,597xp
    ok yesterday I was way too triggered to answer and just went to bed.
    First of all I think your list is mostly correct but some parts are just... ur opinion.
    I had this discussion with m7 countless times but Pyro is not in S tier! Which benefits of Pyro are meta changing or extremely dominating?
    This kit has a really strong early game but drops his power with each phase bc more enchants get into the game and in phase 4 the boss bow comes into play.
    Even fires res is only useful in about every 5th fight. And fire damage is magic damage it gets reduced by protection enchants meaning its looses power in the later stages of the game.
    Lets take a look how much power Pyro offers in a 1v1. You open up with the aoe, usually get 1-3 ignites in and maybe a bow shot with flame. This in total in max and this is a long fight and u getting very lucky 10 ticks of fire without the bow in max 7. But you will have fight in which you get only one ignite and have no aoe rdy. This is magic damage it will get reduced by protection. With some good enchants you will take less than the half. Or just brew fire res and take 0 from it.
    If you look only at these numbers than yes it is strong and may be the most raw damage potential in game. But Pyro should loose in a melee 1v1 vs Thor in equal gear. Why?
    Thor has resistance and 5 magic damage on the ability. Yes its not 4 true its 5 magic. Resistance reduces all firedamage by 20% put a prot value of 5 on it and you have 40% of all fire damage gone. 1 becomes 0.6 and the 10 becomes which is possible the best out come becomes 6. On the same gear thor deals 4 damage to the pyro while having still the resistance to reduce damage of the swords by even more. Keep in mind that in most encounters Pyro wont deal 10 fire ticks maybe about 6 or 7 which would be like 4 damage. So in total if geared the damage potential without fire res is about the same but the resistance just wins the fight.
    Now compare bloodmage to pyro.
    Corrupt always has the damage potential of 4 true damage. yes taking away hearts is the only true damage in the game. And 4 tiicks of wither 2. And the chance just like pyro to inflict poison. So we have 4 true and about 5-8 magic damage on hand. As you might ve noticed. This is more damage than Pyro. On top of it 4 are true and the other damage wont be set to 0 by a potion effect.

    As a player not putting alchemist on top of classes you just dont understand the current meta. I just can say it again full prot 4 regen 2 and prot 1 regen 3 are nearly the same! Alchemist even without regen 3 is top tier str 3 1.5 damage more than str 2, speed 3 60% more movement speed, 20 minutes of invis with reduced particles. And a ressource drop and basicially spawning with 2 private brewing stands.

    I dont see tthe 1v1 potential in immo at all even in 2v1 some classes still can escape and a swapper trap is in most situations th better option. The ability to lock down solo rushes is key but not over mercenary.

    I dont get the spy point I need more information on this.

    Yes farmer is strong but in killing a rush it is better than immo and merc together. Famine is imo the strongest aoe in the game. They cant sprint they cant regen. All ppl will loose out about 8hp of regen in 40 seconds. Not even speaking about how easy you can get ur ghast tears for regen 3...

    Last party I disagree with is bard and tinkerer. How dare you. Bard has in leather the strongest 1v1 potenital due to weakness 3 and later the slowness thats makes scouts unable to use their grapple. Regen 1 in mid outheals all most bow shots etc. but this is close to balance.
    Tinkerer has this little absorption pads. I think you have never played against it. Is ther a way to kill a full diamond in 5 swings? no? ok than a full diamond on tinkerer pads is technicially unkillable. Have you ever seen a mid in which 40+ pads are placed? The team cant die. Some ppl might say but u can break the pads really easy. Yes ok gl with the 40+ in mid. And if ypu breal the pad the tinkerer just gets it back into his inventory. This is broken there are barely no counters and even 0 counters for 40+ pads. Makes regen 3 you unkillbale no? But tinkerer does.

    Ok and I would still rate civ other hunter because it can be used to get mid blocks better than every other class in the game.

    With the other positions I agree you did a good job there.

    The second nerf to dasher would make it on some maps unplayable which is not contoversal thats just bad game design.

    I really like the robinhood buff and the handyman ones.

    Bard buffs are not needed. A bard box placed in center of mid in coastal reaches nearly every part of the mid island.

    The arcobat nerf would make the kit feel clunky and not nice.

    The enchanter more xp should just be baseline for all classes lol.

    Your other buffs/nerfs should be doable but not outstanding.
  19. jinl3e Platinum

    XP:
    49,036xp
    Just want to clarify this whole thing is my opinion but based on facts.
    Idk what you are talking about but pyro is super strong. First he has the ability to set an area around him on fire which makes them a little immobile and does a bit of damage. 2nd he gets empowered attacks and bow shots which is also really good. If you use your ability + passive correctly you can get a decent 3-4 hearts done. When you think that would be enough for pyro he also gets flame resistance which makes him more mobile when he gets on fire and reduces damage. I don't know if you are saying pyro is fine how it is or it's weak. He is a little bit too strong right now and the nerf I suggested will adjust his position on the tier list. Especially the bow nerf since people are abusing it by spamming bows and being annoying.
    Adressing your 1v1 with thor and pyro, i'm gonna say both classes are equal so it's based off of skill. Thor can do true dmg to a bunch people and has resistance, but pyro has empowered attacks/bow + the ability + fire resistance which kinda evens it out. If you played it correctly you would kite the thor out. Use your ability on him while hes chasing you and wait for the fire to go out and you should be able to kill him, but mainly it's just skill.
    Bloodmage. I've never seen anyone pick bloodmage over pyro or just bloodmage in general. Why? Bloodmage is so unreliable. Idk where u got the dmg of the poison from but it does nothing. I put a B+ because of the ability which is nice but it needs a buff with the poison.
    So fire does more than wither.
    The reason I put immobilizer so high up on the list is because there is no counterplay against him. His name is literally immobilizer he makes you immobile. You can't move, attack, mine, whatever for 2 seconds. He is kind of bad in a 1v1 though. I might suggest a rework for immobilizer so he can be playable both solo and team fights.
    Spy was all over the place. They kept switching him back and forth. He was balancedish maybe a bit underpowered before the patch that gave his ability. Shifting to vanish was his only ability. Now he has another new ability that sends a NPC and gives you invisibility and speed. What does invisibility and speed sound like to you? Assassin. But assassin gives you a leap which is for mobility. Spy gives a npc which is to trick and distract the enemies. But since spy has his passive ability to vanish it would be slightly above balance point.
    Ok i'm gonna admit maybe I wasn't paying attention to bard and tinkerer. For bard all I know is you can play a music that either gives regen I, speed I and I thought it was weakness and slowness 1 but I guess they changed it. Now I think it's balanced but I think either the distance from box or the duration of the effects need to be increased. Bringing tinkerer to an A or A+.
    I don't understand what you mean by mid blocks. Is your fluent language english?
    I still don't think you understand how good no fall dmg is. I was thinking of 90% of the dmg is blocked which is a lot of damage blocked but you still take a little
    don't know what you mean by that
    My reasoning behind the 2nd nerf to dasher is so Acrobat can have a unique ability and to balance them. But I guess I can see it being a bad idea so just reduce the blocks you can travel.
  20. Tobi472 Platinum

    XP:
    1,650,597xp
    Bloodmage has a chance to inflict poison on hit. Showing me that you dont even know this shows how little you know about the game. Thats just like the ignite from pyro. Bloodmage has the way stronger active ability. So the only things pyro has to offer are fire res and flame bow. Fire res no benefit in most 1v1 s and flame bow? In a corner 1v1 which u will encounter close to useless. Did you know there is water in the game? And other classes can carry thats sourcre of water with them. There is no chance to dodge the bloodmage active or passive but you can just use water so pyro basicially becomes a civilian.
    I said it can clearly deal 3/ 4 hearts and is a good pick. But its not even close to be op, game breaking or meta changing. All things the pyro offers can be used by any class if they farm. What if a blodmage uses a fire sword? Thats a crazy amount of magic damage which is way more than a pyro has.
    Did u know its wither 2 which the bloodmage has? ty for dropping the false info right here.
    I mean if its 2 strong why barely noone uses it for mid? Maybe because there is water around?
    Sure we can 1v1 with iron prot 1 and thor vs pyro. You cant win this fight. On diamond gear prot 2 the numbers are so hard in my favor that I could kill u with equal hits and still have 4 hearts remaining.
    Yeah my language is so complex that you cant follow. MID = middle and blocks = diamond block and iron blocks. Yes thats hard to understand.
    You can jump down castles mid with dasher and dash ending up at 3 hp lost. This is basicially no fall damage.
    I like your immo part.
    Spy has no damage build in his kit and the mobility aspect is just a bad assa leap. I feel like spy and all invis effects are only good vs new players.
    Enchanter gets 100% more exp from any action in the game. Rework enchanter and make it so that every class has the 100% more exp.

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