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Other *Announcement* Using the Fire Trial room for 5k is now bannable.

Discussion in 'MineZ' started by InstantLightning, Dec 31, 2016.

Other - *Announcement* Using the Fire Trial room for 5k is now bannable. | Page 2
  1. GuigaWei Platinum

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    578,041xp
    So you're telling me that you aren't fixing this until say.. February or something and you expect nobody to use it? Why not just make a change now, like putting temporary glass or blocks to prevent usage. The ledge is just barely low enough to hit the zombies, so why not just elevate the hole in the wall by 2 blocks to be safe? Either way, there will always be a way to farm the room if left in the state as intended, because you can just shoot the buttons. It's about as fast as most other methods used in the past, it's just even more amplified when you can get the ledge.

    Here's what I have to say: this is not and will never be considered under any circumstance a bug. It has been here since the August Update of 2015 and hasn't been figured out to this extent until around September this year. In fact, I might have been the one to make this tactic popular because of my postings of my kills progress in Casual Chat which spans 50 members in Slack as well as bryanloh's knowledge of the trick (which was my original source for figuring the trick out). I've spent a total of 6 days and 11 hours (check leaderboards) working towards the goal of being one of the top players on the MineZ leaderboards which has taken me 5 months to manage so far. I've been inside shrine of the dusk 32 times so far, and the first 35k kills of mine didn't involve using books or the ledge trick, meaning I farmed inf bows and D swords the old fashioned way.

    Calling the trick a "bug" however invalidates all of that work, especially when considering the original top 10 on the leaderboards abused a very heavy glitch in the game's early development. So does this mean all of us on the leaderboards are cheaters? Heck no! Me and bryan legitimately earned each and every zombie kill, as we actually slashed/shot and killed over 130k zombies each in a single life. The location was not even considered abuse until yesterday, and now anyone who used shrine is going to be considered as abusers and cheaters.

    Another criticism I have is the server lag that was mentioned. As many have explored above, any location that spawns zombies can be used to cause this server lag. Roseluck, Wizard's Tower, Anemos, any dungeon with a wave room can be considered for this if they are left running without someone killing the zombies. The Fire Trial will on average give 100-200 zombies per average person per wave. Now I might be at fault for the lag issues, as my waves are beefed up to 600-800 because I know how to handle the waves and how to limit the number of pigmen that get to my spot via keeping the zombies trained close to me the whole time. If you want to limit the number of zombies that can be active at a time, that'd be cool I guess, but banning anyone that uses it is a bit harsh. How long will it be? And how much xp is going to be taken? You weren't very specific.

    Finally, about enforcing the rule. I'm going to say right now, I first saw or heard of this post at 2:21 in the morning. I can get anyone in casual chat to confirm this as the post of my reaction to seeing this for the first time is stamped at 2:21 AM 1/1/17. Apparently this could have been too late because I farmed shrine unaware at midnight CST because of my regular routine, that being an easy uncontested shrine attempt that wouldn't interfere with other attempts because US was sleeping and EU was early-morning. Had I gotten caught, would I have been shown mercy for my lack of knowledge of the new rule? I find it kind of ironic that I wasn't, and at the same time didn't even know of its existence. In fact, I'm glad I didn't because I finally passed bryanloh and now hold #1 without cheating on the leaderboards. Anyways, my point is if I was able to farm at midnight without anyone watching, who's to say that someone who is intentionally breaking the rule couldn't just go at the midnight or 6 AM reboots and do it then when there are ZERO staff watching to make sure it is clean. Point made.

    As a side note, no I have never experienced lag while someone else was in there. A few days ago, I was even having a friendly conversation with Lomrun who made it in shrine around evening of December the 30th/29th (can't remember which). I didn't have any lag at all, and I was fighting giants and walking around eillom. My render distance is rather high as well. Anyways, thanks for reading!
    oliv111, Rixhack, Trozza66 and 3 others like this.

  2. Lomrun Platinum

    XP:
    209,777xp
    @Meme_MC

    This isn't a bug. A bug is something that is there, which shouldn't be in there. Like a faulty code in the java script. This SOTD Fire Trial room is INTENDED to spawn zombies when you don't shoot the Arrow fast enough. Using this 'intention' to farm zombie kills would be considered as 'Exploiting'. And these explotations aren't bugs, and are often the developers fault. Since they didn't think of it, or just completly forgot it. Like the Krubera shrouder, or farming legendaries at devils.

    A bug would be someting like block glitching to get out or on top of things. Its already coded that you can't break the stuff. But furthermore they can't do anything about it. Its already coded that you shouldn't be able to do that. But if you still can, it is a bug. Same goes for Duping items. That is why duping is a bannable offense.

    To conclude. Bugs are almost Always a bannable offense, because they are gamebreaking. Duping items would mess up the game. The exploiting of farming kills doesn't affect other people. Same goes for hopping loot dungeons. Sure you could call hopping gamebreaking, since everyone would have an OP pvp inventory. But it also can be used to get an OP pve inventory. Which doesn't affect other people. That is why this is more in a grey area. But if admins seem to be fine with hopping. Why would they be against farming kills? It doesn't really affect other people. (Sure the lag may cause problems, but banning the spot won't stop the problem.)
    Champion_Guiga likes this.
  3. Lomrun Platinum

    XP:
    209,777xp
    @Meme_MC

    Hopping to get a PVE inventory is because they just forgot about the shrouders completly. Duping is because there is a miscoding. So duping would be considered as a bug then. Which aren't allowed.
    Braiti likes this.
  4. lywu2 Platinum

    XP:
    15,640xp
    Pooped this out in about 30 minutes to see what you guys think about it: http://imgur.com/a/QjESZ

    The edits I made we're really only made to counter people hitting each other up on the ledge, (as that is the method I used when doing 5k with a friend), seeing that grappling can be countered with a shroud. The only thing that possibly could get people up there is a Ellion Ale, or if someone was really lucky with a Baby Pigmen or something, but I digress.

    Edit: The back wall with the buttons need to be moved back a block or so, since you could actually just walk up to it and press the button from underneath the railings.
  5. GuigaWei Platinum

    XP:
    578,041xp
    Again, Eillom Ale could be used to get up so a few more blocks may be necessary. Furthermore, the Simoons Song/ Tune could also be used. That isn't all, you can still farm by using inf bows to shoot the buttons more than normal to spawn the zombies, but this requires much more effort.
  6. Gnjoejoe Retired Staff

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    238,764xp
    Hey, guys, I wanted to hop in here and clear up some questions being asked and hopefully eliminate the confusion surrounding this decision.

    Here are the points which are most important to note:
    1. The abuse of this dungeon is caused by a bug which will be fixed after the 1.9 release.
    2. While ignorance of the rules does not mean that a player is immune to the penalties I have instructed all staff members to deal with this issue leniently.
    3. To elaborate on 2 if a player or group is repeatedly abusing this system then they will be removed and penalized for it, these penalties will be on a case by case basis but they will be dealt with.
    4. You may receive a warning or not dependent on point 3, though the leniency may vary as any penalization can.
    5. We sincerely apologize that this rule had to be made temporarily however the abuse of the dungeon has lead to server/game issues that cannot be avoided at this time.
    6. This rule wasn't made to penalize those that have any way of knowing that what they are doing is not allowed but meant to discourage those that are repeatedly causing server issues by abusing the system.
  7. Braiti Platinum

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    87,241xp
    :rolleyes:
  8. InstantLightning Jr. Developer, Web Mod Lead

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    384,964xp
    Here let me elaborate on that for you. It already is fixed, but it's on 1.9. This is not a matter of setting something aside so that it never happens because it already has happened.
  9. Lomrun Platinum

    XP:
    209,777xp
    @instantlightning

    I think what braiti means that you guys are keep calling it a bug. While it is not a bug. I know it isn't intended for us to grapple on it. But i think most of the guys can agree that it is annoying that you call things which aren't bugs, bugs.
    kirby5098 likes this.
  10. Aexon Regular Member

    XP:
    18,382xp
    I don't understand what it changes at all. You can still grapple, reducing the amount of people able to use this does not remove the problem.
    Plus, in your version, it is way more easy to complete fire trial as the stone walls were making the bottom buttons a lot harder to shoot.
  11. Braiti Platinum

    XP:
    87,241xp
    No, what I mean is that they keep saying that all these things will be fixed in 1.9, but low and behold 1.9's release is nowhere to be seen.
  12. ACrispyTortilla Retired Staff

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    170,292xp
    inb4 lock of thread
    Cookson and Braiti like this.
  13. lywu2 Platinum

    XP:
    15,640xp

    Ah, well.
  14. GuigaWei Platinum

    XP:
    578,041xp
    I think the message everyone is trying to give is that we want these bugs fixed ASAP instead of sweeping them aside under the rug. Whatever happened to fixing the issues everyone is raving about instead of just saying "it's bannable". It's pretty frustrating considering the community had to put up with other stuff like the Command Signs Purge, which put many dungeons out of order (Aeternalis is still like this come on) and then told it would be fixed later. How about instead of closing dungeons or making certain specific actions bannable, we can get an "our bad, we'll fix it by next week, sorry for the inconvenience". We all knew this method wouldn't last, but it was perfectly legal until 3 players messed with the dungeon and made it a problem, which sucks of course. But this course of action isn't the best for the community because it proves to us time and time again that things will not get fixed like expected and creates the "Origins by 2020" attitude that the player-base adopts. It's like dangling a piece of chocolate by our faces with a rope, except with this new Shrine rule, we are at gunpoint as well.
    kirby5098, Trozza66, Aexon and 5 others like this.
  15. spolendina Emerald

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    175,586xp
    Thought the same thing lmao
  16. Gnjoejoe Retired Staff

    XP:
    238,764xp
    As i've said this issue will be resolved post 1.9, until then this has been implemented as a temporary way to stop a critical issue.
  17. InstantLightning Jr. Developer, Web Mod Lead

    XP:
    384,964xp
    The reason why we havent already rolled it onto the 1.8 live servers is simply because we can't right now. We can only roll changes on 1.9 as it is right now. We are truly sorry for the situation, but we have to wait til 1.9.
    Soular likes this.
  18. Soularless Platinum

    XP:
    158xp
    @everyone

    You heard them - it's small. I doubt 5% of us use/used the Fire Trial anyway. Here's an idea. Deal with it. Shit happens.
  19. Axyy Network Co-Lead

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    330,038xp
    thats no good
    oliv111 likes this.
  20. FreeCookson Platinum

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    3,771xp
    I didn't but its the best way to farm and it shouldn't be bannable unless they are actually lagging out the server. Thats the reason people are complaining.
    Champion_Guiga likes this.

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